Help with a Mystery Clone

[Breeze Bender]

I’m pretty excited about my first find of the season. It sat in a barn loft in Massachusetts for the last 32 years and it’s dusty but dry. But what is it? There is no HIN on the stern or anywhere else (so it’s pre-‘72) No insignia on the lateen-rigged sail. No markings of identification anywhere! It is 14’ long, but wider than the Sunfish at 54” and with a much larger cockpit. There’s a great storage area forward of that. The coaming is mahogany. The bow is squared like a scow. The mast and spars are maybe 2’ longer than the Sunfish. I guess with all these differences it’s not really a clone, but I am totally stumped. The seller didn’t provide any insight except to say that it has only been sailed on Sebago Lake in Maine, where he bought it used many years ago.
Any thoughts from all my friendly experts out there?

 

[Breeze Bender]

Here are a couple more pics. The mast is 12’. Drain in stern looks original. I was stumped again after I raised the sail and realized there’s no halyard cleat on the deck. And no evidence that there ever was one. There is an odd hitch on the mast at the proper height for a mast cleat (see pic) but there must be another place to tie off the halyard!

 

[po-man sailor]

Sweet find. Hope the price was right. Looks like it's all there.

 

[Breeze Bender]

It was $400 and came with a cool dolly the guy built for the boat. I thought that was a pretty good deal. BUT WHAT IS IT?? Only marking anywhere is on the port cover, PYHI Wilmington, CA Googled that and didn’t get much- a company that used to make ports!

 

[po-man sailor]

I dont think the physical is relevant to the boat brand but rather to the component manf. Imo. Experts will know waaay more than me

 

[L&VW]

That odd "hitch" is a cam cleat, often made in stainless steel. (Also "V-Jam" cleat). Halyard tension holds it in place. Just pull up on it (as you are doing) complete one turn behind it, and tuck the remaining halyard behind it.

I think I mentioned PYHI inspection ports here at the forum. They're in the same class as Beckson, which means they're 1970s vintage, and a very good quality. Hmmm...vintage...1970s...quality...sounds like a very old wine.

One thing stands out as unique to this boat, and that's the curved tiller. If you take a photo of the full length of the tiller (tiller only), and put it in the Bing search engine, a round icon appears that sends you to search "similar looking items". That search could take you to a site—maybe eBay—and a full description could be forthcoming.

(I'll help!)

 

[Breeze Bender]

Thanks for the v-jam clarification, L&VW, I have never used that kind of cleat before. It feels uncertain- like it needs a backup on the deck? What holds the mast in place when I turtle?
I took a pic and checked out the bing image search but no boat tiller matches. Another tool for the box, though, I’ve never tried that search before.
Even Shorty Pen is coming up ‘short’ on this one.

 

[L&VW]

Anything else unique to this boat's design or equipment? Mahogany splashguard?

Bing could search for similar "scow" images of the bow.

 

[LaLi]

That odd "hitch" is a cam cleat, often made in stainless steel. (Also "V-Jam" cleat).

Not a cam cleat A cam cleat has moving parts.

I'd call that cleat a wedge cleat, but the English-speaking world seems to disagree V-cleat is the name most everybody uses. Ronstan calls theirs a "v-jam", as they have reserved "v-cleat" for their version of the Clamcleat.

(A Clamcleat is technically a v-cleat with multiple "vees" in a row. And that name is trademarked by the English company of the same name.)

I have never used that kind of cleat before. It feels uncertain- like it needs a backup on the deck? What holds the mast in place when I turtle?

Cleats like that are most often used for lightly loaded control lines. It probably holds the halyard ok, but kills the line fairly quickly, especially when it always grabs it at the same place. Something like a side-entry Clamcleat would certainly be better.

If there are no fitings on the deck by the mast, then just don't heel more than 90°...

_

 

[Breeze Bender]

I wouldnt call the halyard a lightly loaded line, and I’m not real comfortable with a v-jam that will “probably hold it OK”. Just looked up the side-entry clam cleat but I don’t like the way the line has to thread through the sides several times then locks into the teeth.
It seems a simple horn cleat on the mast and another on the deck is the way to go (like many do to relieve pressure from the deck-only horn cleat on the Sunfish)?
I don’t plan to flip it, but I also don’t want to risk losing my rig when and if I do.

 

[Sailflow]

What holds the rig in if you capsize?

 

[Breeze Bender]

What holds the rig in if you capsize?

The halyard will tie off at mast cleat (I like horn cleat unless convinced otherwise) and then again at horn cleat I’ll have to add on the deck. So the mast is tied in to the deck cleat. The now identified v-jam seems like a weak link to me? But this boat has been sailed with just that, so maybe it’s me? Or maybe it’s why there are no other boats found like it!

 

[Breeze Bender]

Anything else unique to this boat's design or equipment? Mahogany splashguard?

Bing could search for similar "scow" images of the bow.

Tried several images but nothing close. The hatch forward of the cockpit is unique, as far as I can find.
Anyway, Signal Charlie should be chiming in with his thoughts and to ask me what I’ve named the boat.
How about “No Clew”

 

[Alan S. Glos]

Breeze Bender,

I swear I have seen a photo of your mystery boat somewhere but I can't find it. Like you said, even the Shorty Pen website does no seem to list it.
Is there any type of builder's plate or a Hull ID number you can find and post here?

As for the mast cleat, consider hoisting the sail, cleating it in the jamb cleat and then tie a loose overhand knot just below the cleat. This way, if the halyard slips out of the cleat, the knot will prevent the whole rig from crashing down on the deck. Also be sure to tie the free end of the halyard to the deck near the base of the mast so the rig does not separate from the hull in the event of a capsize. The jamb cleat shown is not the ideal cleat for a halyard. A standard horn cleat would be better, an easy retrofit if you don't trust the jamb cleat shown.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY

 

[Breeze Bender]

Thank you for confirming what I suspected. Why there was never a cleat on the deck I don’t know, but I will be adding one there and on the mast. I know I have a bunch of horn cleats to choose from in my parts bin.
I’d love it if you ever come across that picture, Alan! I’ve scoured the boat and no ID markings anywhere, no HIN

 

[Breeze Bender]

I went through my parts and like this first ‘single loop’cleat for the mast (proper name I don’t know but it’s old and brass) then the brass horn cleat on the deck. It may be a bit before this little project can be done but now I know the plan.

 

[LaLi]

Just looked up the side-entry clam cleat but I don’t like the way the line has to thread through the sides several times then locks into the teeth.

Are we talking about the same fitting? The line goes through the side exactly once, and it's very easy to cleat with one hand, by pushing the line under the "hook" part with your thumb. Much easier than tying it around a horn cleat.

Of course, you can use a "plain", leadless model, but with the side-entry you can use a trucker's hitch -type knot above it for a 3:1 purchase to lighten the load on the cleat's teeth.

Why there was never a cleat on the deck I don’t know

Maybe because there is no need for it, as there's one on the mast already You're thinking of this boat as a Sunfish, which started off with a deck halyard cleat, and added the mast cleat much later, for reasons that don't necessarily apply in this case. It's no Sunfish (how about "Scowfish" ), and you don't need to use the halyard (or any other equipment for that matter) in ways that Sunfish class rules, construction and/or tuning would dictate. For example, for a mast retainer (which you obviously want), I'd consider a separate line between the gooseneck and an eyestrap on the deck. You might even make it into a fully adjustable downhaul. As for stowing a halyard tail, there are plenty of choices which don't require any deck-mounted fittings.

I went through my parts and like this first ‘single loop’cleat for the mast

How do you tie anything to that? If you absolutely want to tie the halyard, shouldn't you use a "regular" horn cleat there?

_

 

[L&VW]

Not a cam cleat A cam cleat has moving parts.

I'd call that cleat a wedge cleat, but the English-speaking world seems to disagree V-cleat is the name most everybody uses. Ronstan calls theirs a "v-jam", as they have reserved "v-cleat" for their version of the Clamcleat.

(A Clamcleat is technically a v-cleat with multiple "vees" in a row. And that name is trademarked by the English company of the same name.)

Cleats like that are most often used for lightly loaded control lines. It probably holds the halyard ok, but kills the line fairly quickly, especially when it always grabs it at the same place. Something like a side-entry Clamcleat would certainly be better.

If there are no fittings on the deck by the mast, then just don't heel more than 90°...

I would agree, but someone searching for that image has to keep in mind that Google's landlubbers don't know cleats!

 

[Breeze Bender]

LaLi, you’re right, I was thinking of this boat like a Sunfish, and it’s not. Still, it seems the mast should be secured to the boat, no? I understand there’s a mast cleat, you say that’s all I need, but I’m more comfortable with the added insurance, just in case I do heel more than 90 degrees. There’s already an inspection port close, so putting in a backer block will be easy. It has nothing to do with class rules, which don’t concern me (even if it was a Sunfish)
When I googled clam cleat a video came up where the line was threaded through the sides several times before locking. Looking again after reading your response I see how simple the cleat is. It’s an option.
The brass ‘hook’ in my photo above- (How do you tie anything to that!) I wasn’t thinking of tying the halyard to the mast with this, but just looping over that hook to take pressure off the horn cleat I still plan to add to the deck.

 

[L&VW]

If I sailed my Sunfish in waters of 20-feet or less, I wouldn't be concerned about losing the rig.

But I keep a figure-8 knot in the bitter end of the mainsheet. The rig would be dragging behind a turtled Sunfish until I reached shallow water. But the spars would be spared the stress of bending, permanent creasing, and other terminal insults that would result from rocky, muddy, or "stumpy" bottom structures.

Of course, I use the classic Sunfish deck cleat, so the above spar-wrecking scenario is theoretical.

So far, I've always managed to right my capsized Sunfishes, but there is a muddy lake I sail on that has a maximum depth of 30-feet, so I may have to re-think using that factory-provided deck cleat.

 

[Breeze Bender]

So far I’ve always managed to right mine, too, but I haven’t flipped in a while and the last four years have really aged me

 

[LaLi]

it seems the mast should be secured to the boat, no?

Well, I already answered that:

for a mast retainer (which you obviously want), I'd consider a separate line between the gooseneck and an eyestrap on the deck. You might even make it into a fully adjustable downhaul.

It has nothing to do with class rules, which don’t concern me (even if it was a Sunfish)

It actually has, because in the Sunfish that one line has those multiple functions (halyard, downhaul, retainer) only because the class rules say so. When that isn't required, it makes much more sense to let the halyard just hold up the sail, and have another line as a downhaul/retainer. Likewise, the use of horn cleats comes indirectly from the class rules. You don't really see them in boat classes in which there are other choices.

(And if I've understood it right, the two halyard cleats on the Sunfish aren't fundamentally for "added insurance", but for the ability to rig both the "Jens" and the "regular" rigs, and/or to adjust the halyard and downhaul parts separately. Real Sunfishers please correct this if necessary.)

_