Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
I just found an Ace Hardware going out of business - 80% off everything. What size brass screws were used on sailfish and other wooden boats??
Help! Brass wood screws
- Thread starter Mama H Chicago
- Start date
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
So… I bought the entire box of each! The charged me $5 per entire plastic case. $10 for all these brass screws. Something has to work somewhere!
Wow! That’s quite the loot! Looking forward to seeing how you put them to use.
1) I sold a large collection of grommets for big money on Craigslist. I'm not sure the roundhead screws will see much use, so those can be sold to buy tapered drill bits.
(Wood screws are tapered, so they should be "started" with a tapered drill bit. Seen any lately?
Fortunately, inexpensive bits are made today in the exact sizes).
2) During periods of hyper-inflation, it's better to have "things" than cash.
So it's a good idea to stock up on Sunfish parts. What will be the price of Sunfish bailers in a few years? They've already passed the $50 threshold!
(Wood screws are tapered, so they should be "started" with a tapered drill bit. Seen any lately?
Fortunately, inexpensive bits are made today in the exact sizes).2) During periods of hyper-inflation, it's better to have "things" than cash.
So it's a good idea to stock up on Sunfish parts. What will be the price of Sunfish bailers in a few years? They've already passed the $50 threshold!
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
I read somewhere that the mast step uses the oval rounded ;-). So I’ve got a use for the long ones at least
Thanks for the heads up on the tapered bit. I’m still very much a beginner on so much of this, but I love the learning I get from this forum’s feedback!!
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
Whoops again! Looks like the rounded don’t go very long. Perhaps I’ll make one more trip north today to see if any gems remain. I also got a gallon of the veneer adhesive that I need for $10!
Nice score. Brass will work for quite a while. The original hardware and fasteners are bronze.
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
Truth. I did realize that once I started reading the parts list. Do you think the brass will be okay? Or should I be looking for bronze? Or use stainless steel?
What do you need to fasten? I should have mentioned that there is plenty of stainless on the fiberglass boat boat as well, so we match like material fasteners with similar material parts where we can. My brain immediately reverts to the wooden boats, in a saltwater environment, where bronze is time honored.
Brass or stainless will be okay for many years. Marine grade stainless, like 316, holds up better because of its mix of metals, so it's used with marine grade aluminum on newer boats (ex aluminum backer plates in 1988 and newer boats). What we like to avoid is using stainless with aluminum, as dissimilar metal corrosion will happen fast in a saltwater environment. One example is when folks use stainless rivets on boom eyestraps.
Some ACE hardware stores have excellent marine stainless sections, compared to the "stainless" that Lowes or Home Depot sells. When we need quality bronze or stainless we look for marine supply houses, like Fairwinds Fasteners, Jamestown Distributors or Hamilton Marine.
Brass or stainless will be okay for many years. Marine grade stainless, like 316, holds up better because of its mix of metals, so it's used with marine grade aluminum on newer boats (ex aluminum backer plates in 1988 and newer boats). What we like to avoid is using stainless with aluminum, as dissimilar metal corrosion will happen fast in a saltwater environment. One example is when folks use stainless rivets on boom eyestraps.
Some ACE hardware stores have excellent marine stainless sections, compared to the "stainless" that Lowes or Home Depot sells. When we need quality bronze or stainless we look for marine supply houses, like Fairwinds Fasteners, Jamestown Distributors or Hamilton Marine.
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
You and Skipper are treasures! I’m fastening back on the deck and deck hardware on the late 1950’s (I think) wooden Sailfish. I think some of the original screws for the deck hardware might survive just fine, but I know many of those used to secure the deck itself have had their tops sheared down by a lady who hasn’t learned to properly control her radial sander…
joe c
banned
i buy tapered bits from fuller bit in rhode island. if they dont have what you want, they can make it.
really nice people. family owned. just call em up.
really nice people. family owned. just call em up.
1) I sold a large collection of grommets for big money on Craigslist. I'm not sure the roundhead screws will see much use, so those can be sold to buy tapered drill bits.
(Wood screws are tapered, so they should be "started" with a tapered drill bit. Seen any lately?
2) During periods of hyper-inflation, it's better to have "things" than cash.
So it's a good idea to stock up on Sunfish parts. What will be the price of Sunfish bailers in a few years? They've already passed the $50 threshold!
Brass screws need the correct size screw driver. Make sure the screw driver is the full width of the head and a snug fit. I find that 1/4" hex bits are best as the part that actually contacts the screw is parallel sided and so does not "cam out" They are hollow ground.
Brass screws are lovely but outdated now and only used for aesthetic purposes.
I used to lubricate them with a bit of candle wax. Make sure to drill the correct pilot hole and countersink.
If I'm unsure, I do a dummy run in scrap first. Saves shearing them off.
Nowadays I only ever use SS on boats and elsewhere it's all Torx head screws. They never cam out or shear off.
Brass screws are lovely but outdated now and only used for aesthetic purposes.
I used to lubricate them with a bit of candle wax. Make sure to drill the correct pilot hole and countersink.
If I'm unsure, I do a dummy run in scrap first. Saves shearing them off.
Nowadays I only ever use SS on boats and elsewhere it's all Torx head screws. They never cam out or shear off.
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
@Riv You hit the nail (screw) on the head! I’m using these very much for the aesthetics, as this boat is aiming to be the loveliest on the lake. 
Perhaps some of the old screws will be hard to remove. Drill them out.
Consider using drill bits of the "left-hand" variety. They drill using the reverse switch, and can both drill-out the screw (in pieces) or better, to cause the screw to back out (slowly).
A set in a metal container cost $8 a few years ago at Harbor Freight.
Consider using drill bits of the "left-hand" variety. They drill using the reverse switch, and can both drill-out the screw (in pieces) or better, to cause the screw to back out (slowly).
A set in a metal container cost $8 a few years ago at Harbor Freight.
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
WARRIOR Screw Extractor and Left-Hand Drill Bit Combo Set, 10 Piece - Item 61981 / 40349 / 63987 Screw Extractor and Left-Hand Drill Bit Combo Set, 10 Piece
Going to go pick up a set! Thanks
Nicholson58
I’d Rather Be Sailing My Tornado
I would never use brass. #1 those are “yellow brass”. They are zinc rich and will corrode quickly, especially in salt water. #2 too soft to be reliably removed after time.
use SS
use SS
Quality materials = Quality life for the boat. When we built our Penobscot 14 we used marine grade 316 stainless, marine grade British Standard (BS1088) okoume plywood, marine grade coatings and West System epoxy. We could have used less expensive materials but we built what our Marine Carpenter friend calls a "100 Year Boat" vs a 7 Year Boat. We are passionate about small boats and don't mind spending extra to have something that will last longer. Different strokes for different folks, some folks can get on the water and stay on the water for a very minimal outlay of funds.
Silicon bronze has the best longevity for use in a wet environment, especially saltwater. Marine grade 316 stainless is very suitable above the waterline. For bronze and stainless fasteners we have have been using Fair Wind Fasteners lately, good prices, great quality and customer service. They are a young company and are continually adding new products, I've been pestering them to add bronze wing nuts. They have carriage bolts that would work with the early rudder releasing mechanisms and they have any Alcort size bronze screw that we need, plus ring shank nails.
I can't emphasize enough that bronze screws are great for surviving salt water, but there is a system to putting them in. The metal is soft and it is easy to shear during installation. If the same size is being replaced, no problem. But going into new wood or sizing up a fastener then a proper size and shape pilot hole for a wood screw needs to be drilled, and countersink in some cases. We use Fuller Combination Pilot and Countersink tapered bits, sold many places but we like WoodenBoat Store. As for what type of driver to use, Philips, flat, square, Torx, star, Frearson head, etc...as mentioned above it takes the right type bit for the screw. The bits can't be worn, you name a bit, I've stripped that type screw head when the bit gets worn. Or stripped when using Big Box Store "Stainless" or "brass" versus the true stainless, brass or bronze. We like Frearson head screws, similar to Phillips, but they do require a Frearson bit. Other folks reside soundly in their straight slot camps or square drive camps. One Old School trick for bronze screws is to use the old timey brace and bit to put the screw in, so you can feel if the fit is getting too tight. Using a power driver there is not nearly as much feel. Wax or soap can help, but make sure the lubricant used is compatible with the screw material, to prevent fastener corrosion.
Everyone should get one of these, a ratcheting bit brace. Plus some nice auger bits and a piece of good old soft pine. Cut some holes for therapy. This system cuts holes almost as clean and fast as a carpenter bee. You can cut slow enough to feel the auger bit tip poke out the opposite side, then back the bit out and go around to the other side to finish the cut. There are also screwdriver bits and bit adapters. The tool below is now our son's, passed down from Skipper, who got it from her Grandma Nelson. On very rare occasions I was allowed to use it, so I bought my own recently.
Carpenter bee, found in a plank that I was scarfing.
Bee went dead straight through this 10 inch long chock.
Silicon bronze has the best longevity for use in a wet environment, especially saltwater. Marine grade 316 stainless is very suitable above the waterline. For bronze and stainless fasteners we have have been using Fair Wind Fasteners lately, good prices, great quality and customer service. They are a young company and are continually adding new products, I've been pestering them to add bronze wing nuts. They have carriage bolts that would work with the early rudder releasing mechanisms and they have any Alcort size bronze screw that we need, plus ring shank nails.
I can't emphasize enough that bronze screws are great for surviving salt water, but there is a system to putting them in. The metal is soft and it is easy to shear during installation. If the same size is being replaced, no problem. But going into new wood or sizing up a fastener then a proper size and shape pilot hole for a wood screw needs to be drilled, and countersink in some cases. We use Fuller Combination Pilot and Countersink tapered bits, sold many places but we like WoodenBoat Store. As for what type of driver to use, Philips, flat, square, Torx, star, Frearson head, etc...as mentioned above it takes the right type bit for the screw. The bits can't be worn, you name a bit, I've stripped that type screw head when the bit gets worn. Or stripped when using Big Box Store "Stainless" or "brass" versus the true stainless, brass or bronze. We like Frearson head screws, similar to Phillips, but they do require a Frearson bit. Other folks reside soundly in their straight slot camps or square drive camps. One Old School trick for bronze screws is to use the old timey brace and bit to put the screw in, so you can feel if the fit is getting too tight. Using a power driver there is not nearly as much feel. Wax or soap can help, but make sure the lubricant used is compatible with the screw material, to prevent fastener corrosion.
Everyone should get one of these, a ratcheting bit brace. Plus some nice auger bits and a piece of good old soft pine. Cut some holes for therapy. This system cuts holes almost as clean and fast as a carpenter bee. You can cut slow enough to feel the auger bit tip poke out the opposite side, then back the bit out and go around to the other side to finish the cut. There are also screwdriver bits and bit adapters. The tool below is now our son's, passed down from Skipper, who got it from her Grandma Nelson. On very rare occasions I was allowed to use it, so I bought my own recently.
Carpenter bee, found in a plank that I was scarfing.
Bee went dead straight through this 10 inch long chock.
There are a few other "drives". I have a bit that one might call, "Tri-Lobe", used in aircraft. (Never have used it).
Others include: Robertson (square-originally from Canada), Phillips 0, 1, 2 , 3, posidrive, JIS, Supadriv, Reed Prince.
There's another fairly new drive that's in hardware stores. It's a blend of Phillips and square drive. It holds (and drives) the screw firmly and doesn't drop off the screwdriver tip, like Phillips often will. It won't "cam-out". A Phillips will drive it with difficulty.
If starting a big home project, I'd investigate this. Unknown if there is marine hardware available for this latest drive. I'll check for the name next time I'm in an Ace Hardware store.
Nicholson58
I’d Rather Be Sailing My Tornado
Just a caution or two. I have found many small bronze flat head wood screws in the floor structure and cabinets of our 1984 Camper & Nicholson 58 ketch. These are straight blade slotted. Many of the heads have broken off as I tried to remove them. bigger is better and slotted is not preferable. Marine bronze is the correct material NOT the yellow brass from the local hardware.
Inconel if you can find and afford it.
Inconel if you can find and afford it.
Mama H Chicago
Mother of sailboats
Thanks very much. I have definitely seen the light and am getting marine bronze
A boat-building video posted here within a day or two described their use of brass screws to construct various interior panels. (Of a sea-going boat).Thanks very much. I have definitely seen the light and am getting marine bronze