First timer

[predator]

Hi everyone.
I'm new to pretty much everything to do with sailing-- I've been on my brother's boat once or twice, but certainly had no clue about how to do anything. I think his boat was 32 feet? The extent of my sailing knowledge is that the wind blows and the boat goes.

Anyway, he had bought a Sunfish for his daughter many years ago, and it's been sitting upside down in his yard ever since. The sails were rolled around the mast on a top shelf in his garage. He said I could have it if I could get it home, so I bought a trailer and drove it home over the 4th.

Yesterday I went to the neighborhood boat launch by myself to put it in the water and I thought I'd relay the experience for your enjoyment.
My neighborhood is built around a 1700-acre reservoir lake. The launch point is about a 5-acre lagoon.

I backed up to the ramp with the masts and sail still tied down along the length. I pushed the boat out into the water and then pulled it back up on the grass beside the ramp to go park the car. At least it floats-- check one.
I fumbled around with the sail for about 20 minutes before I figured out which end was up, and ultimately ended up putting the gooseneck on backwards anyway.
Then I went to attach the rudder and I couldn't make the pin move at all. I spun it with some pliers to free it up and then it moved easily. Now I realized the rudder was in the down position and I couldn't budge it. After another 20 minutes I managed to use the handle of the pliers to wedge between the wood and the bracket and pry it about halfway to the beach position, but it is still really hard to move. Now that it cleared the ground it went right in the bracket-- check two.

I knew the sail was on backwards, but I wasn't trying to impress anyone and didn't think it really mattered which side of the mast the sail is on, so I pushed off and set out.
The first thing I noticed was that I'm a big guy and this is a very small boat. I sat on the edge of the deck right behind the tub and I heard one crack. I didn't sink, and there were no more noises, so I kept going.
Then I soon realized two things-- With the sail on backwards, the blocks are on the top of the boom, so the mainsheet doesn't move very freely at all in either direction. And, probably even more important- there is no wind, I have no idea how to steer this thing back to the ramp, and I don't have a paddle.

Yes, I'm an idiot.

I could tell from the daggerboard dragging that the water was very shallow, so I wasn't in any real danger. If nothing else it was a relaxing lounge in the lagoon, and every now and then a slight breeze would blow me a little farther out. At some point I realized I never put the rudder down, so I shimmied and leaned over the stern and had to beat on the far end of the rudder just to get it to move a few inches. It wasn't all the way down, but at least it was under the water now.
Finally, the air and water went dead still about 100ft from shore. It had been about an hour and a half to get to this point, so I decided I should figure out how to get back.
Suddenly there was a slight breeze. I have no idea which direction it was coming from, but somehow I managed to position the sail to get me moving toward the shore. (I figured out that the daggerboard is critical to going straight, and the rudder actually works). I wasn't able to go straight back to the ramp I came from, but managed to beach myself nearby.

With that little success, I fixed the sail and considered heading back out, but ultimately decided it was dumb luck I got back this time and without a paddle I really couldn't hope to get to where the wind was.
I dropped the sail, grabbed the bow line, and walked along the shore with the boat trailing behind back to the ramp.

It was still fun and informative. I know it floats with me on it, and I learned a bit about how to rig and control it. I need to work on freeing up the rudder and there is no retainer to hold my daggerboard in place. I also didn't see any drain hole-- there is a plug in the bottom of the tub but it is flush with the floor and doesn't have any screwdriver hole or anything to indicate that it is supposed to come out.

Well, that's my story. I'll go out again on Friday, and this time I'll have my two-piece plastic paddle that came with my inflatable row-boat.

 

[the Flying Fish]

Great story..,
Sounds like you had an adventure.

There are better sails to come.

 

[Zeppo]

Being as you are a "maniacal engineer" you should have all the glitches worked out in short order. You should have captured your day on the resevoir for YouTube.

 

[predator]

I actually planned to, but my cameraman decided not to join me at the last minute. I thought something worthy of AFV might come up and get me a quick 10-grand, but it turned out to be pretty boring.

I'm wondering--
How hard should the rudder be to move up and down? I see it has a toggle spring on it to hold it in either position, but should you be able to yank it with the tiller to pop it in one direction or the other? I saw from the great race video that leaning over the back to clear grass was the method of choice. I would think it would be easier to just pop it up and then pop it back down, so I'm guessing the spring is stiff enough that the ground has to push it up. I can take it apart and make it move freely, but I'd like something to shoot for.

I'm also wondering about the drain plug. Is there an active component to it or is it just a hole with a check-valve? Has anyone considered a little battery-powered bilge pump, or do you just never get that much water on board that it is an issue? I'm expecting to be flipping over a lot for a while. Since I think I don't have one, I have to do something, so I thought I might get creative.

 

[Memnar]

I'm also wondering about the drain plug. Is there an active component to it or is it just a hole with a check-valve? Has anyone considered a little battery-powered bilge pump, or do you just never get that much water on board that it is an issue? I'm expecting to be flipping over a lot for a while. Since I think I don't have one, I have to do something, so I thought I might get creative.

The only time I get any water in the boat is when the wind is really howling and you are on plane or almost there, then I unscrew the drain knob and let the water out. The water is almost always from spray. I usually carry a sponge on slower days to totally empty the cockpit. I am inland so waves don't get that big vs. the ocean.

Also - I think adding any thing like an electric bilge is going against what a Sunfish or dingy sailing is all about; simplicity.

-Erik

 

[the Flying Fish]

Re: First timer ALSO

I just bought a 1967 Sunfish recently.
After stripping and sanding the rudder and centerboard to bring out the original wood. I used polyurethane to coat and the wood looks just great.

Got the mast cap which was missing...,

So I am now ready to bring out my sailboat for it's first sail.

I convince my wife to go with me. I had to absolutely promise I would not flip the boat over.

Well..., 1/2 hour into the sail, I flipped the boat, we both went overboard.

She is whining and moaning for about 10 minutes, then a smile came to her face and she started laughing.

We were only in about 8 feet of water, so the mast stuck deep into the bottom mud.
We had so much stuff floating around, my wife was trying to grab everything, while I unsuccessfully tried to right the boat.

finally people came, I have to have the boat dragged out of the mud so I could flit it back upright.

After 1/2 hour we were back sailing again, the cockpit was loaded with water. we lost my t-shirt and her sunglasses.

had to scrub the sail clean when we got home.

I am still married and still alive and she had so much fun, she is wanting to go this weekend with me again.

I need to once again promise to not flip.

But I am sure I will.

hopefully
this time we will be better prepared and have everything stowed correctly..

 

[Zeppo]

Predator, the rudder cheek mechanism requires a bit of force to re-position, It isn't something you could easily do while sailing the boat. I put my rudder on while I am in about a foot of water, at this point it is in the up position, once I push the boat into 2 feet or so I put it in the down position. As for the drain, yours sounds like a different set up than mine, on mine there is a plug which is attached by a short length of flexible plastic ( similar to the arrangement on an air mattress), the plug is easy to remove and because of the flexible plastic the plug remains directly over the drain hole. The beauty of this is that you can reset the plug by simply stepping on it.

 

[Webfoot]

It's much better if before you go out the first time to rig everything up while the boat is on the trailer. You can walk around the boat and figure out how everything goes together. I always do this before I put a boat in the water the first time.

Gotta be speedy on boat ramp. Make sure you have everything off-load from the boat and on the grass before backing the boat down the ramp. Should be just the hull on the trailer ready to slide in the water.

Dagger board should have a spring metal strap on side. Friction holds the board in.

The source of the 'crack sound' should be located before you go out again. Could be where the tub joins the upper deck. Always good to make a repair before you are forced to make a larger repair later.

Sailing is a rush, lot's more fun to come!

 

[Wayne]

How hard should the rudder be to move up and down? I see it has a toggle spring on it to hold it in either position, but should you be able to yank it with the tiller to pop it in one direction or the other?

The spring tension should be the only resistance once the tiller strap is lifted off its seat. Aside from the springs everything should pivot smoothly.

Kick-up rudders have a slight amount of side play in comparison to fixed rudders. Maybe someone cranked down on the pivot bolt in an attempt to eliminate all the play.

I'm also wondering about the drain plug. Is there an active component to it or is it just a hole with a check-valve?

Bernoulli's principle … you have to be moving at a moderate rate of speed, minimum.

I convince my wife to go with me. I had to absolutely promise I would not flip the boat over.

Plastic Jug
http://www.sunfishforum.com/showthread.php?t=29332

​

These don't keep you upright, just from being a stick-in-the-mud.

 

[predator]

Here is a picture of my "drain plug" in the bottom of the cockpit.

I also don't have any edging around the perimeter of the deck- rivet holes, but no edging-- and a number of chips and scratches everywhere.

My deck is full of these blisters. I read the repair manual online that says how to fix 'bubbles' in the gel coat, but I'm curious about their origin. There are so many that I'm going to have to sand down almost the whole surface. It seems strange to me that they would appear from just sitting in the yard for a long time.
My brother-in-law said that when he first got it (used) he left it in the water during a hurricane that ended up smashing a hole in it. I'm not sure where, but he sent it off to be repaired and it came back 5-years later. It seems odd that someone would leave these bubbles in the deck, seal up the drain plug, and leave off the edge trim.

 

[the Flying Fish]

Floats on the mast.
I cannot believe I didn't think of that.

Great Idea!!!

Thanks so much!!!

 

[Wavedancer]

Here is a picture of my "drain plug" in the bottom of the cockpit.

The cork will work to keep the water out, but a bailer will be nice (about $45).

I also don't have any edging around the perimeter of the deck- rivet holes, but no edging-- and a number of chips and scratches everywhere.

You can buy the 'official' aluminum trim (about $150) or you can consider the alternative (less expensive) methods that have been posted recently. BTW, the trim/edging isn't absolutely necessary; you can go sailing without it.

My deck is full of these blisters. I read the repair manual online that says how to fix 'bubbles' in the gel coat, but I'm curious about their origin. There are so many that I'm going to have to sand down almost the whole surface. It seems strange to me that they would appear from just sitting in the yard for a long time.
My brother-in-law said that when he first got it (used) he left it in the water during a hurricane that ended up smashing a hole in it. I'm not sure where, but he sent it off to be repaired and it came back 5-years later. It seems odd that someone would leave these bubbles in the deck, seal up the drain plug, and leave off the edge trim.

As you surmise, fixing the blisters will require blood, sweat and tears.
The forum has several current threads related to this topic. Among others, check out NightSailor's extensive posts on the SCUD project (with detailed pictures) and the Minifish restoration project (March 23, 2009, also with nice pictures).

PS: Here is an older (short) thread that addresses blisters (the Search function is SO handy):
http://www.sunfishforum.com/showthread.php?t=25836
Thanks Zeppo!

And another one (from the Laser Forum):
http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=8688

 

[Wayne]

Here is a picture of my "drain plug" in the bottom of the cockpit..

Ahhh...., non-existent. You can get the setup manual free from the Laser Performance website. By going over the instructions you can better discover what parts might be missing or altered.

I also don't have any edging around the perimeter of the deck- rivet holes, but no edging-- and a number of chips and scratches everywhere.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to do a leak test (there's a guide in the Knowledge Base). Unprotected, battered edges are prone to leaks.

My deck is full of these blisters... I'm curious about their origin. There are so many that I'm going to have to sand down almost the whole surface.

Given your description of your brother-in-law's impeccable care for the boat . . .

All plastic is semi-permeable. With time moisture finds its way into the layers. Large, moored boats get hauled out on an annual basis, their hulls checked for intrusion, and repaired as needed. Thin skinned beach boats weren't built to be moored so are even more susceptible put in that situation.

Moisture can come through from the inside as well. Many years of sitting can collect condensation inside the hull. On warm days vapor finds its way into microscopic fissures in the fiberglass layering. Leaks that go un-repaired increase the inner moisture level to tropical.

I'm not sure where, but he sent it off to be repaired and it came back 5-years later. It seems odd that someone would leave these bubbles in the deck, seal up the drain plug, and leave off the edge trim.

Five years and a plugged drain sounds like the repairs were being performed by a friend of a friend of a friend who hobbies at fiberglass work, not a professional boat repair facility.

 

[Zeppo]

Those blisters are caused by water penetrating the gel coat which is actually quite porous. Once the water has entered the actual laminate it can chemically react with any undissolved catalyst or uncured resin, once this occurs the reaction produces gas pressure from within, this will result in quite sizeable blisters. If that problem is ignored the laminate will eventually be compromised. If the problem is that you have millions of tiny blisters, then the problem may not be serious, it's just some blistering of the gelcoat. This could be repaired by sanding the hull to remove all the blister, then hose the area down with fresh water and allow the boat to dry out, in summer weather with low to moderate humidity I would give it at least a week. Lastly fill any pitted areas with a solventless epoxy, fair and barrier coat with epoxy. If you have large blisters but not too many, open them up, flush, fill and fair as above. Osmosis blistering is worst for boats left in warm fresh water, next is cold fresh water, then warm salt water and lastly cold salt water.

 

[predator]

Thanks everyone.

I've read through much of the site-- repairs, bailers, drain plugs, etc.-- great stuff. The moisture origin of the blisters is most helpful. I'd say there are probably a hundred or so over the side and aft of the deck.

I can relay my first real sailing experience.
I loosened the nut squeezing the rudder too tight and it works nicely now.
I went back out, this time with a paddle and I put my sail on straight but didn't raise it, and quickly got to some breeze. I still wouldn't call it wind-- couldn't have been more than 5mph at most. Just enough to fill the sail, but no risk of capsizing.
I had some trouble raising the sail-- the rope doesn't slide over the top of the mast like a pulley, so you have to help it up with your free hand. It is a little tricky keeping your balance, but I managed. It is also key to remember to pick up and twist the boom a little to free up the gooseneck.
Sail up, rudder down-- on my way. Oh, need the daggerboard too.

That was the exciting part.

From then on I just tooled around the lake figuring out how to tack, how close I could get to the wind, and so forth. As the new-ness wore off and I was able to think a bit more critically, I realized that I really needed to know which direction the wind was coming from to apply the "points of sail" pictures to get some efficiency out of my sail. I also started looking around at my boat and realized that I'm missing about 8 of the sail clips on the foot of the sail!

I was out for about 2-1/2 hours, mostly just trying to tack back up the lake to return to my launch point. The wind changes direction in the middle of the lake, so I could head straight to where I wanted to go, but then had to bear off to keep moving.

It was still a lot of fun. After I got the hang of it I sunk down with my butt in the tub and my legs up on the deck so the boom could swing freely over my head. I just rode the wind all the way back to my lagoon until the daggerboard started dragging and the wind went away completely.
A quick and easy paddle brought me right to the beach where I let out.

It was great.
I went to West Marine and got a little wind indicator flag and screwed it to the top of the mast-- on the starboard side where the spar shouldn't hit it.
I also bought some nylon fabric to make another little flag to put on the top of the upper spar, mainly just for fun but also as another wind direction.

I can't wait to get out there again!

 

[NightSailor]

The cork will work to keep the water out, but a bailer will be nice (about $45).

I have though it might be better to glass over the drain hole and carry a coke bottle cut into a scoop shape. I do carry the coke bottle bailer and use if often. After pricing out bailers, I think the idea has some merit. I enjoyed seeing the patch on the drain hole. Very amusing!

 

[Courtenay]

Your story reminds me of my first 2 times on the water with my sunfish - lost a small cooler & sunscreen on my first trip (I mean capsize) and a hat on my second voyage. I was so proud when I stayed upright and came home with everything I took to the lake on my third sail. : )

 

[L&VW]

To me, those "blisters" appear to be under a layer of paint—not gelcoat. Your paint is likely a "deck" paint—not intended for immersions lasting hours—much less, days.

Especially when inexperienced, I'd replace your so-called "drain plug" with an actual Sunfish "bailer". An emergency hand bailer can be fashioned from a detergent bottle—large or small. You can step on it by accident, and not harm anything. It'll come with its own handle!

The missing cockpit aluminum-trim molding is an indication this Sunfish apparently had some "strains" from sailors even heavier than you. I'm about 220# and occasionally will produce little "cracking" noises, especially under pressure from a knee.

You can reduce the tension of the rudder: One of my Sunfish has large, thin, plastic washers on either side of the swivel. Although it takes a little muscle, raising the tiller fully—and pushing—will lower my rudder into place from the cockpit: pulling will raise it.

For all sailors—always watch for bad weather: the sound of thunder means you waited too long to get back to shore!