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Even the Laser is not immune

powergroove

Member
The IOC removes the Tornado Class from Olympic Competition, so whats next? Does the Laser's 30yr old design stand the test to remain in favor, or will something replace it too? To say the Multihull Class is incensed about this decision is an understatement. As for me, a long time multihull racer, I am also pissed, but as my Laser roots grow, an my love for the boat increases, I realize that that the ISAF doesnt care, they are a money making orginization, dont let the "not for profit" thing throw you, and if you are sending them money(via Laser, or US Sailing), you better ask you get in return. You better start asking what the ILCA is doing with your money, and what they are doing to protect the Laser from the ISAF and IOC, because we(Laser) seriously could be next.

http://www.stanschreyer.com/
 
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Ross B

Guest
you do know that a class HAD to be given up to reduce athlete count, as demanded by the IOC
 

madyottie

Apprentice
At this stage the Laser is not even gauranteed for 2012. They have only said that there will be an open singlehander. This means it COULD be Laser, it could also be foiling Moths, or even something like the RS700 or Musto Skiff. Even though they decided against a womens skiff, the 29er XX is still in with a shot, they only have to prove to be better than the 470 (and any other challengers).
The IOC wanted keelboats dropped, they even issued a statement back in '02 saying that! ISaF chose to ignore the IOC then, and again now. Seriously, the ISaF committee need a wake up call, maybe the threat of not being included at all in 2016 might stir them into action!!
 

powergroove

Member
Ross, its all a scam, sailing is not the viewer friendly sport . Vs. TV and the internet has given us a boost, but even that can only get us so far, people just dont understand the rules, or the sport. The IOC added darts as a demonstration sport, you know get rid of the sailors, and add the true atheletes....
 

torrid

Just sailing
They keep dropping traditional Olympic sports in favor of bimbo beach volleyball and similar events to draw in TV viewers.
 
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Ross B

Guest
it could also be foiling Moths, or even something like the RS700 or Musto Skiff.
none of those will be chosen as they are not used by the mass, and do not have international status

Edit: actually, think the RS700 is the only of those to not have International Status, but either way, it has to have MASSIVE world wide appeal to become Olympic class, or be created especially for the Olympics
 

Josef

New Member
It has nothing to do with what's beeing used by the mass or what has international status.
IOC wants TV-minutes and sailing can't really provide that, cause seriously, it ain't fun to watch sailing on TV (especialy fleetracing which is what we're usualy doing).

I don't really have an answer for what to do about it though, I think it takes a fundamental change in attiude from the IOC.
 

Chainsaw

Brmmm Brmmm
I don't really have an answer for what to do about it though, I think it takes a fundamental change in attiude from the IOC.
It may take a fundamental change in attitude of the general western world.

e.g. Motorcycle racing is quite boring. But if you have actually done it yourself, you see much more in footage than the average individual. Same thing applies to sailing, I guess.

not sure how you're going to make sailing more popular in the western world though... since the overall aim seems to be to get as many people as you can to live in a city where it's too dangerous to go outside, and the city is 500km from the sea.
 

Josef

New Member
Same thing applies to sailing, I guess.
In the case of fleetracing, I really don't enjoy watching it on TV and I don't know anyone who does =P
Matchracing can be quite ok but there are still quite a few sports I find more entertaining.
 

sailchris

Member
The IOC removes the Tornado Class from Olympic Competition, so whats next? Does the Laser's 30yr old design stand the test to remain in favor, or will something replace it too? To say the Multihull Class is incensed about this decision is an understatement. As for me, a long time multihull racer, I am also pissed, but as my Laser roots grow, an my love for the boat increases, I realize that that the ISAF doesnt care, they are a money making orginization, dont let the "not for profit" thing throw you, and if you are sending them money(via Laser, or US Sailing), you better ask you get in return. You better start asking what the ILCA is doing with your money, and what they are doing to protect the Laser from the ISAF and IOC, because we(Laser) seriously could be next.

http://www.stanschreyer.com/

The thing is, I don't think it would hurt the Laser class if the Laser were dropped from the Olympics. The class was already the strongest one design class in the world before it was picked to be an Olympic class in 1996. Olympic sailing really only affects and drives a tiny percentage of Laser sailors. Yes, there is some trickle down of gear from the top sailors that might be reduced if the Laser wasn't in the Olympics, but that is a minor thing.
The Laser class will be alive and well with out without the Olympics. I don't think the same is true of some of the other Olympic classes.
 
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Ross B

Guest
The class was already the strongest one design class in the world before it was picked to be an Olympic class in 1996.
Always thought that was the Opti or Sunfish, could be wrong though. But from what I hear is pretty close between the three of em
 

sailchris

Member
Always thought that was the Opti or Sunfish, could be wrong though. But from what I hear is pretty close between the three of em
By strongest class, I am not just referring to sheer numbers of boats. I am referring to a combination of number of competitors and quality of competition.
 
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Ross B

Guest
ahhh

Opti's are still pretty big, they get regattas just as large, if not larger than Lasers, but I'm with ya
 

sailchris

Member
and why not? all the best sailors have raced them.
My original comment was that Lasers were: "already the strongest one design class in the world before it was picked to be an Olympic class in 1996." To comply with Rossums obsession with complete accuracy, I now amend my previous post to read:

The thing is, I don't think it would hurt the Laser class if the Laser were dropped from the Olympics. The class was already the strongest one design class FOR HUMANS OVER THE AGE OF 15 in the world before it was picked to be an Olympic class in 1996. Olympic sailing really only affects and drives a tiny percentage of Laser sailors. Yes, there is some trickle down of gear from the top sailors that might be reduced if the Laser wasn't in the Olympics, but that is a minor thing.
The Laser class will be alive and well with or without the Olympics. I don't think the same is true of some of the other Olympic classes.
 
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Ross B

Guest
Awesome

you gotta be specific, other how are people gonna know? lol

my work here is done, so far....
 

GBR 134

Member
The thing is, I don't think it would hurt the Laser class if the Laser were dropped from the Olympics. The class was already the strongest one design class in the world before it was picked to be an Olympic class in 1996. Olympic sailing really only affects and drives a tiny percentage of Laser sailors. Yes, there is some trickle down of gear from the top sailors that might be reduced if the Laser wasn't in the Olympics, but that is a minor thing.
The Laser class will be alive and well with out without the Olympics. I don't think the same is true of some of the other Olympic classes.
I couldn't agree more. I sailed 5o5s in the 80s when the class was particulatry popular and strong internationally. We perceived at the time we were being courted for consideration for Olympic status. The class always resisted the call as the rank and file didn't want to face the escalating costs that we all beleived would follow from the gear developing arms race. Much as I complain about the cost of replacement sails, I appreciate that the strict one design of the Laser more or less insulates the class from this danger. I still feel that if I come up against Mr Cambell at a regatta, he won't be beating me because he has superior equipment.

Incidentally Ros good to see you back. We all just love your strong and unsurported opinion - still on course for 2012?
 

torrid

Just sailing
If I were to come up with Olympic classes, this is what I would choose:

Single-handed dinghy (men's and women's)
Double-handed dinghy (men's and women's)
Windsurf (men's and women's)
Catamaran (open)
Keelboat (open) with match racing medal rounds

That's eight total events minimizing the number of competitors, but is fairly inclusive of all types of yachting - make that sailing. Granted there would be debate as to the appropriate class for each.

I really feel catamaran sailors got screwed by this. I don't sail cats, but they are a large portion of the sailing community and should be represented accordingly.
 

Reon

New Member
You keep telling yourself that thats what drives the IOC, 49ers are soooooooooooo popular afterall =/
i agree ... 49ers arent popular any where near where i am ... i am in strong opinion that the 505 should have been in the olympics .. not the flying dutchman.
 

Josef

New Member
49ers wheren't really popular anywhere before they became an olympic class, they're only used because they do spectacular capsizes and similar shit so they get abit of TV-time.
 

all_ratone

New Member
"49ers wheren't really popular anywhere before they became an olympic class, they're only used because they do spectacular capsizes and similar shit so they get abit of TV-time."
49ers weren't popular because they have just been designed to be an olympic class! with the purpose to introduce a modern skiff in the olympic program... and skiffs are very popular every where because they make exciting races to watch and must be awesome to sail!
as to the tornado being dropped out i think it's awfull because now there isn't a catamaran in the olympics and catamarans are an interesting different type of boat to be sailed with different skills etc... i think it would be much more interesting to drop the finn! as there is already a single handed boat for men, the laser.. finns aren't very popular anywhere except in Northern Europe!
If the laser were to be dropped out of the olympics i don't think it would be a bad thing as the class is one of the strongest in the world and it may also make the laser cheaper!!!
ross b: the opti isn't a one design boat!!! there are several makers of hulls and sails and masts and everything... :p
 

Cenutrio

New Member
I think it is a shame that Tornado's were dropped out of the olympics.

I'm a 100% laser sailor for decades now and I love every minute I get racing my Laser. This years master world's were just a sign of what a nice fleet we are.

However, I'm also involved in other classes and the Tornado's are just a blast. Nothing come close in speed, nothing. They just killed the most spectacular boat by a mile in the olympics. Besides formally declaring the ISAF being a monohull society.

This is a shame for the sport.


Some cool Tornado vids
Tornado1, tornado2, tornado3, tornado4.
 

Vigolaser

Member
I think it is a shame that Tornado's were dropped out of the olympics.

I'm a 100% laser sailor for decades now and I love every minute I get racing my Laser. This years master world's were just a sign of what a nice fleet we are.

However, I'm also involved in other classes and the Tornado's are just a blast. Nothing come close in speed, nothing. They just killed the most spectacular boat by a mile in the olympics. Besides formally declaring the ISAF being a monohull society.
I didn't expect any other opinion from you Cenutrio, if I gess well who you are, olympic family matters are involved. ¿aren't they? :D
 

Cenutrio

New Member
I didn't expect any other opinion from you Cenutrio, if I gess well who you are, olympic family matters are involved. ¿aren't they? :D

Oh yes, family matters are surely involved ;-) Still, the fact is that they killed the fastest boat in the olympics, by a mile. One of the very few ones that may actually make people wonder about sailing because it is just spectacular.

Another point would be that if you get the panel of olympic boats that competed in the 1976 olympics (470, Finn, Tempest, flying dutchman, soling, tornado) and you compare it to the equivalents in 2012 olympics (470, Finn, Star, 49er, yngling, yngling?), overall, the boats in 1976 were quite faster than what will be in 2012. We are walking backwards.

Honestly, before removing Tornado's, the Finn and the Yngling, and even the Star (designed in the early 1910s I think) have less appeal for sure, and some are redundant (Laser-Finn duality?).

I know I'm biassed, but still, we are going towards slow, and that pisses me off. Remove the Finn and include a A-Class catamaran. Move to foiled moths, include australian 18 footers, but do something radical. Do not move back to 1970s sailing (heavy and slow), we and technology are way head of that.

This and the decision of racing in Quingdao where no wind and strong currents are gonna kill sailing in the olympics, you'll see.

take care VigoLaser, let me know if there are interesting races around there, I may join.
 

powergroove

Member
Cenutrio, you are my hero! I also believe the multihull class is probably the most spectator friendly to the non sailing community, just by speed alone. There is always this misconception by the general public that sailing is slow, and is only for people with blue blazers who are sipping champagne. The cats add a different and suprising element, and I personnally think we need a cat class at the Olympic Level.
I also think boat selection should be changed yearly, without 4 or more years to prepare. Follow the Alter Cup format and change boats every year, never giving anyone an advantage. Let the sailor be the difference(does that sound Laserly familiar?) Giving someone 4 yrs to prepare on a specific boat kinda takes away from the sporting point of it, and that goes for any sport.
You know they are adding Darts as a demonstration sport, you know, remove all the atheletes and put in more TV friendly sports!
 

Josef

New Member
Ok I might have worded that wrong, they wheren't really popular anywhere untill after they had already been at the olympics once, and as far as I can see, they still arn't really overly popular anywhere (compared to other old and current olympic classes).
 

Cenutrio

New Member
49er are a step forward, you may not see that many, but because these are boats for highly qualified sailors. Not everybody can sail them, as easy as that. Very competitive fleet, and growing too.

Not that much faster than a flying dutchman though.
 

Cenutrio

New Member
I do not know about that concept of switching boats yearly, it would be extremely expensive and dissatisfactory, because which one would be used in the olympics? All of them? weird.

Better everybody figures out for the most adequate boat, and go for a 4 years olympic campaign, as it is the case these days.

Problem being that most classes are for very heavy/big sailors (Star, Finn, Yngling, and even lasers).

All those classes are terribly slow and boring for anybody but hardcore fans.

The Yngling is just boring to anybody, what a piece of crap.

Regarding windsurfing, the old Mistral One Design was so much better looking and more all around that today's RX:S that is not even fun, what an ugly board.

One of the best classes selection for the olympics I read these past weeks, that would be fun to watch and compete in.
 

GBR 134

Member
49er are a step forward, you may not see that many, but because these are boats for highly qualified sailors. Not everybody can sail them, as easy as that. Very competitive fleet, and growing too.

Not that much faster than a flying dutchman though.
I think the 49er is very popular to watch even if not to participate in. I love watching them but spent an hour or so trying to sail one - actually I took it out for a swim more than a sail!

As for speed differences - I have raced regularly in a 5o5 fleet against an Olympic aspirant in the FD - he used to come to Grafham for the 5o5 Winter Series in the late 80s to practice fleet racing and rarely won a race on the water - without handicap. Conversley the current RS 800 fleet all beat the current 5o5 fleet very comfortably and I'm confident the 49er would be well in front of all of them.

In the end if all you want is speed - buy a windsurfer!

just some musings - I still think it's a backward step not to have a Cat in the Olympics!
 
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