Cracking Hull

P

Pedal-Force

Member
Sorry for all the threads I've been making. I searched, but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for.

The boat I bought the other week I thought I got a good deal on. After my first "sail" I'm not so sure.

When I first checked over the boat before buying it it seemed good, and the seller said the person before him had repaired the deck to "last a lifetime". After I took it out on Sunday I'm a little worried.

I put my knee down in the cockpit at one point and heard a distinct crack. Sitting on the deck is pretty soft and when I push down with my hands it makes scary noises of delamination.

The mast step holds water. The boat is only an 87. It doesn't leak at all. Not a single drop of water in the hull.

So what do I do? I haven't contacted the seller, not sure if he knew the shape it was in or not. I paid $1700 and it came with a Seitech dolly, good condition class sail, brand new outhaul/cunningham, new mainsheet, new carbon tiller/extension, new vang.

The blades are decent, the daggerboard line is new, the hiking strap line is new. The mast step was ok, the spars seem fine. Traveler line wasn't great, and was illegal.

So far I've upgraded with a new traveler line, put a mast step disk in, new hiking strap, new Orbit 55 mainsheet block with the black rubber holder, a practice sail, and a trailer.

If the hull was in good shape I think $1700 was a great deal. Now, I'm not sure.

What's the worst that can happen? Is the hull gonna come apart under me and sink with all my spars and good stuff attached? There are some hairline cracks that seem to be only in the gelcoat in places.

The repair was to the part where you sit, and was done by drilling in and putting epoxy.

Is it worth fixing this hull? Should I just sail it? Obviously it isn't gonna be super fast. At some point I'd like to be fast, so at that point I'd get a good hull, but that's a while off.

TL;DR: hull makes cracking noises, mast step is good, deck sags, cockpit cracks, hairline cracks around, doesn't leak at all. Sail, fix, or ___?

Thanks in advance.
 
You can put 5" inspection ports in the cockpit under each area where you sit on deck. Put the boat upside down on racks go underneath it and lay down some supporting glass with resin in the soft areas. You can also drill holes in the deck and tape them shut on the deck side an pour in resin/epoxy from the inside while it's upside down. I think this is about all you can do, but since you lready have the $ 1,700.00 invested it would be worth a shot. Sounds like whatever repair was done is giving way. Some of the late 80's boats were known to have deck delam issues.
 
I've also seen a cockpit that's been cut out, (the bottom part) and glassed back in after some support pieces were glassed to the hull to support the bottom of the cockpit with someone in it. Might as well check the mast step doughnut support while you're in there.

I had something similar happen to me. Thought I had a great deal. The mast step held water, but after closer look and a good wash found it was completely delaminated. It took a few tries, but I got her fixed right. The hull also had two significant areas where it had been holed at some point. One in the bow and one undr the stern, but those repairs were good. It's a great boat. 98' model and just as fast as the new hulls. In the end I've replaced everything except the hull, spars and blades. Even new dolly tires as the old ones were dry rotted.
 
Thanks. So I guess sailing it would be a bad idea you're saying? I guess I would just make whatever repairs I eventually do more difficult?

I'm not sure when I could get it repaired. I don't have the skills or the area to do it myself. Fiberglass work in the parking lot at my condo is probably frowned upon, considering I'm not even technically supposed to be storing the boat there.

My parent's are pretty good with fiberglass and have all the right tools, after spending the last couple years working on their KP44. The only problem is that they're a 4 hour drive away, and I work full time. I get three day weekends (work 4x10) but I don't think a weekend is gonna be enough time.

I suppose I could drive it down to them, work on it with them, leave it down there for them to work on some, come back to work, and then go back down the next weekend to finish it and pick it up. That sounds like a fun way to spend two weekends. :rolleyes:
 
You should be able to get it knocked out over 2/3-day weekends. For the deck you'll need a day of prep work cutting the inspection port holes, drilling more deck holes and making sure everything is dry and clean to apply new fiberglass cloth and resin. Day 2 you should be able to make repairs assuming everything is dry and then I'd let it sit a week to cure before putting in the inspection ports and getting it buttoned up the following weekend.

You can also use this time to try and support the bottom of the cockpit by glassing in support pieces underneath it. I'd recommend some kind of solid, non-porus product, (not wood) that does not weigh much and will be easily held in place with some fiberglass strips or "end caps" on each side of the cockpit floor.

These are just my recommendations. You may want to check with a pro which is Fred or our Gouvernail here at TLF.
 
I have a simular problem. I plan to sail it until the cracking gets scary, then cut two inspection ports, and lay several layers of glass mat on the deck from below where the sitting areas are. I dissagree with the poster that said don't use wood. I have seen several wood/glass installs from the 1960's that have worked well. The technique is to cut the wood peices to fit, then soak completely in the fiberglass solution allowing them to become saturated. Then install while the solution is still curing and cover completely with glass mat, and glass into place. Wood is still the lightest, and stiffest material able to support your weight. Fiberglass is stronger, but will add excess weight if you make it a solid piece. Under the deck, and glassed in, it should last several decades.
 
...cap'n bill,,,I suggest doing the work sooner rather than later--it won't get easier with time,,I PROMISE!!
...if you guys plan t'race these boats much,,tryweighing them to see what investment is worth it...much over 130 and it's deminishing returns!!
 
I used poly foam injected into the laminate of my Laser Decks soft spots. It has seemingly held up well so far. I drilled a few holes and sprayed the foam in. The key is to have pressure on the deck for awhile so it doesn't bubble-up. But the results were inexpensive, quick and the deck is like a rock.
 
capn_billl said:
That poly foam sounds like good stuf, where can I get some?
Click to expand...

If it's the stuff I'm thinking about you get it at Lowe's or Home Depot. They use this stuff on homes to fill exterior areas where cables and stuff go into the side of a house. This stuff keeps water and anything else from getting into the wood or home. Be careful with it though. It's like taking a mouth full of "Brute". That stuff expands quite a bit.
 
wrestlingthewind said:
I used poly foam injected into the laminate of my Laser Decks soft spots. It has seemingly held up well so far. I drilled a few holes and sprayed the foam in. The key is to have pressure on the deck for awhile so it doesn't bubble-up. But the results were inexpensive, quick and the deck is like a rock.
Click to expand...

Do you mean polyurethane foam? How long has this lasted so far? There was a previous post about using foam but it only lasted a year or so apparently. If it does work I would like to use foam as it is light
 
I used the cheap stuff from loews. My first attempt was successful, but it does really expand and I did not have enough weight spread across the deck so I do have a little rise in a spot.

My second use on another boat was better, I was well prepared with a masked off area where the foam is shot into, this stuff is nasty to try to remove. I also had another set of hands pushing the foam out and placed weight plates on the area to surpress the lifting.

Two years so far no complaints, but the boats are not pristine racers, they are ones I use to race at the club and some local fleet stuff.
 
wrestlingthewind said:
I used the cheap stuff from loews. My first attempt was successful, but it does really expand and I did not have enough weight spread across the deck so I do have a little rise in a spot.

My second use on another boat was better, I was well prepared with a masked off area where the foam is shot into, this stuff is nasty to try to remove. I also had another set of hands pushing the foam out and placed weight plates on the area to surpress the lifting.

Two years so far no complaints, but the boats are not pristine racers, they are ones I use to race at the club and some local fleet stuff.
Click to expand...

This is very interesting. No extra weight, at least two year lifespan, no mucking about with epoxy. If I put too much foam in is it possible to remove it (with bent coat hanger for example)?
 
This discussion has also been very interesting to me, since I bought a boat that seems to be similar in condition to the one that Pedal Force has.

I bought my Laser in the late fall and haven't been able to sail it yet. (The water is very hard this time of year in Michigan!) Its old (1976, I think) and well used, but also generally shows signs of having received good care over the years. Its biggest problem seems to be that the deck has some de-lamination - soft, slightly concave areas on either side of the cockpit. The price was low ($650) and included a Kitty Hawk trailer and sail in good condition.

I was very lucky to find a somewhat newer bare Laser hull for $75 locally. It has other problems, but the deck and hull are not soft, and the nicks and scrapes it has are much easier to repair than the de-lamination of my 1976 hull. My plan has been to just use the 1976 hull as is as long as it holds together and then repair the newer hull.

The idea of repairing my 1976 hull with polyester resin or epoxy just seemed like more of a project than I wanted to undertake. That's why I decided to just use it as is. I had wondered about injecting building foam, but saw no mention of that until this thread. I'm definitely going to give that a try, as it seems very easy to do.

There are at least two types of this foam that I have seen. One is for general use and expands quite vigorously. There is another type that is made for use at the sides of doors and windows and expands less, so as to not distort door or window frames. Does anyone have experience with this lower expanding foam in their Laser?

(Pedal Force - are you connected to the bike frame importer of the same name? We bought a Pedal Force TT bike and are very happy with it.)
 
Not affiliated, but it is the same. I own a Pedal-Force (although I'm not thrilled with it, the BB30 isn't in the best shape and creaks and cracks a lot) but I just like the name.

If I could find a bare hull in decent shape for a few hundred I'd do that. I've gotten an offer from someone nearby who has space and will help me work on the boat, so I'm probably gonna do that.

Gonna go sailing this weekend first, see how bad it really is in normal use.
 
If I was more of a handy-man I would have used the low expanding product. It probably would have re-attached the laminate just as well as fill the voids. The foam I used really expanded! Thus the need to keep the deck down and flat. If your decks are soft, you really should consider re-enforcing the mast step with a simple 6" port rather than having the step swing free and break the deck.
 
wrestlingthewind said:
If I was more of a handy-man I would have used the low expanding product. It probably would have re-attached the laminate just as well as fill the voids. The foam I used really expanded! Thus the need to keep the deck down and flat. If your decks are soft, you really should consider re-enforcing the mast step with a simple 6" port rather than having the step swing free and break the deck.
Click to expand...

Wrestlingwiththewind, thanks for the info. I'm undecided about which type of foam to use. My deck, especially between the cockpit and the gunwales, has a definite concave curve and I want to be sure the foam expands enough to push that back up. I'm inclined to do what you did and use weights to keep the deck from rising too much. Perhaps I'll clamp boards across the deck between the cockpit and gunwale to limit how high the deck can rise. I'm delighted to hear that your repair has lasted.

Do you have any pictures of your repair, especially the second, more successful job? Did you drill a central hole for injecting the foam and then other holes in a circular pattern to allow the foam to move outwards? How large was the circle of holes? What size holes?

I'm hoping that the area around the mast step is OK. I'm assuming some previous owner made a repair there, because there is an inspection port near the mast step. I haven't yet checked the mast step for water tightness, as it was below freezing when I bought the boat and I didn't want to get water into the hull until I have warmer temps.

Your help and advice is very much appreciated.

Rob
 
The deck can take a pretty good beating, I've never seen one break even really really bad hulls from normal use, If its not broken don't fix it.
 
I have to agree that a delaminated deck or soft spot is nothing to worry about. That my "quick" fix worked in taking care of my obsession. Yet the soft spot was a obvious short coming of either the manufacturer or how it was maintained. Probably the later Thus the real concern about the mast step. One boat is a 89 and this year has been highly suspect.
 
My 148085 boat started to fall apart two years ago. the mast step was leaking like a soup strainer, the cockpit was soft and the deck where you sit completely started to separate, My dad and I cut sections out of the **** pit floor and put fibreglass foam braces back in.. glassing that fixed big leak problems and really sured up the cockpit. The mast step we used to "cut a hole next to the mast step and glass the hell out of it and put the plug back in method" and that seems to be holding up great. But the deck where you sit is the next operation. We have cut portholes on the inside of the **** pit on either side. Made 6 fibreglass foam sandwich braces (3 on each side ) which is to be glass to the **** pit through the port holes. Once this is finished this boat will be rock solid. And at the moment a new boat is not an option but working on the old one is.
 
I had a great sail today, and I'm thinking I might just leave the boat for a while. While sailing I don't really notice it being soft at all. When I press with my hand while on the trailer I can notice it, but don't notice anything while sailing.
 
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