couple quick questions...

C

Canadalaser

New Member
After racing on an active team for all of last year, i have run into a couple of questions that my teammates were also puzzling over. First, during CORK series one last august, the windspeed increased to over 30 knots during one of the races. At this point, it became nearly impossible to gybe the boat while on a downwind run. I was wondering if anyone else has encountered these problems and how they dealt with them. Also, a number of people reccommended the use of a teflon marine polish. When one member of our team used this polish on his boat, the water that he washed the hull with beaded on the hull. How can this increase the efficiency of the hull? Would it not be more beneficial if the water sheeted off the hull?

Thanks,
JB.
 
If you're gybing in 30 knots of breeze you had better hope for a wave to catch first to take some of the pressure off your sail. I actually had this problem last weekend at the Easter regatta in Austin TX; it was nuking and I gybed during a lull and was on a good course to get to the leeward mark until I got hit by a blast that was probably close to 30. I couldn't even keep the boat heading downwind and I reached too high to make the mark, couldn't catch enough of a wave to gybe back, chicken gybed, got stuck in irons, etc. Not very effective. I also would like to learn the secret to flat water heavy air gybing. On the ocean you just do it while you're dropping down the face of a wave and it's pretty easy even in high winds.

PS. Hi FishingMickey!
 
isn't it when u gybe by tacking first, i mean like ur on a port tack broard reach apporaching a mark which is on ur starboard side so u would need to gybe around it, now my understanding of a chicken gybe would be to continue sailing past the mark then tack so ur bow goes to port goes right around then heads to what was originaly ur starboard side, so uve tacked then gybed, but because u have tacked first then immediatly gybed theres no power in the sail and therefore a safe and easy gybe, good for heavy wether gybe,


but if i were gybing in heavy airs personally, i would raise the board halfway as to give the boat less grip after the gybe and making it less capsizable, then i would sheet in as much as i could, move my weight across then move the tiller so as soon as the boom crosses i'm allread on the new side and ready to go,


*(sorry if ive talked aload of rubbish)*
 
The trick to the heavy air jibe is to jib when the boat is at full speed. Either on a plane or surfing a wave. Try to jibe when you are in the meat of a gust and have your best speed on. Also, you have to jibe QUICK. Otherwise the boat slows and loads up too much making it impossible. In those conditions I'll let my vang off a little to insure the boom does not drag in the water when bearing away at the weather mark and once it crosses over after the jibe. Once I feel more in control I'll get some vang back on for a little more power, but not too much!
 
I second whats been said above. Hyannis last summer was a good example. Blowing stink on the second day and riding huge rollers from the top mark it looked like a Laser graveyard with so many boats flipped over at the gybe mark. The trick is to lift of the daggerboard part way because the boat will literally trip over itself and catch a wave and start surfing. Even if you don't catch a wave exactly at the mark, it's worth your time to wait it out until you do. Surf dow the day, sheet in and I usually just grad the boom and throw it to the other side. This works well because when the Laser is surfing down waves the boom naturally comes to the center. The get your but to the new windward side as quick as you can and be prepared for that sail to snap back as it gets powered up again.
 
i have a question too. i was saiing inthe martin couty orida juior olympc regatta and the winds where round 25 nd it was 35 degrees.i m relativel new to laser racing and it was my second regatta. i only weigh 119lbs and it was imposible forr me to evnget don to the course because you had to sail downwind and i would get hit by 3 foot rollers and go nto plainand strt rocking uncontrollably and i would flip. any tips to stop this from happening.
 
At the Easter laser regatta in Austin Texas this past Sunday, the wind gusted over 25 knots.

Before I went out, I made sure I could let my outhaul really loose. I found that most of the people who flipped and were out of control had their outhauls or sails tight or flat downwind. This makes you out of control for many reasons.

Also, I found that keeping the vang relatively loose allowed me to sheet in and let pressure out of the sail with more ease (or less sheating) in the puffs. When I went into gybe, tightened the vang to the tension that I would have on a reach.

I also lowered the centerboard to about 4-6 inches from the farthest it can go down to help the boat turn easier through the gybe.

Going into and coming out of the gybe, I took very wide angles and kept the boat almost entirely flat. If the boat ever started to rock in these conditions, whether during a jibe or just on the run, I kept the tiller still and sheeted in the main.

Also, in these conditions, the aparent wind is changed by the boat's speed. You should sheet in about 15 degrees more than what your tell-tales indicate or what you would normally sheet. You will start moving a lot faster.

Furthermore, many people can flip pile up at a leward mark when no one in a group of boats has gybed and one of the group flips. This weekend provided a good example: at ten boat lenghts I had overlap on one boat and another boat had overlap on me. I gave up my overlap to gybe at ten boat lengths. A puff of around 30 knots came in and both boats had horrible mark roundings because they had to gybe late. Ten seconds after I rounded the mark both guys were in my bad air.

If the conditions had been in a bay or on the ocean I would have done my gybes in lulls in the troughs of waves with my boat set with the same rigging. After a little practice, it is really easy in ocean sailing as Michelle said.

I did all of this at 168 lbs in a full rig, and my friend, who is 120 lbs, did the same in the radial fleet.
 
After reading the question again, I would have to say that sheeting in 15 degrees more than normal, due to the change in aparent wind, and sheeting as much and fast as you can, prevents these gybing problems. If you have not sheeted in on account of the aparent wind, then you have 15 degrees more to sheet in going into the gybe, making it much harder.
 
Matt, I agree w/everything you posted, but letting out the outhaul downwind in breeze is one I have not tried. I guess it does make sense cause it moves the center of effort from the sail closer to the mast making it easier to keep the boat under the sail. Kinda like centering a chute in heavy air, if you rotate the chute to weather of the boat you're asking for a death roll, but if it is centered in front of the boat it's easier for the driver to keep the boat on its feet and under the chute. Is my logic good?
 
Howdy ya'll,
My hat is off to both Matt and Michelle.... Matt really kicked some ass in the heavy air on Sunday in some serious conditions and Michelle did excellent too... Matt ended up third with some serious good Laser sailing legends three district secretarys, Eric Faust, Mark Eldred, Scott Young, Doug Peckover, Fred Schroth just to name a few in that regatta "high fives to Matt". I dumped three times before the start of the first race. Some of the gusts were so strong that it was like the wind was playing cat and mouse.... The wind would blow a stinker gust and I was the mouse getting swatted... slap and your over in the drink. I'm proud to say I finished both races... Especially the first one. The second race I figured out how to super chicken jibe by going well outside of the mark and after two tacking around I would get going down wind. Once I made the turn it wasn't too bad.
There were 34 full rigs entered into the Regatta and the last race on Sunday there was only 11 survivors sailing the second race. I learned a lot that regatta about heavy air downwind sailing and still have a lot more to learn.
Here is a link to some of the pictures... http://www.reygarza.net/easter_regatta.html

Needless to say I can't wait till next year! I hope it blows just as hard but wish it would be just a tad warmer!
Best regards,
Fishingmickey
150087/181157

p.s. Hi back at ya Michelle! ;)
 
One more thing,
In regards to the Teflon polish. I'm a firm believer in it... It make the bottom so smooth and slick when you let it dry and polish it out with an electric buffer. I feel it gives a very good laminar flow over the bottom of the hull "no voids to create drag". It also makes the bottom very dirt and stain resistant.
Thats my two cents worth... slicker is quicker in my book...or short story so far anywho.
Fishingmickey
150087/181157
 
Not sure if I understood why you could not jibe. (usually staying up after is the problem :) ) But here's my safe gybe tip for heavy weather anyway:

1. Like many have stated before try to gibe when riding a wave. That reduces the relative wind pressure to your rig.
2. sheet in maybe 1/3 to reduce the sail angle (and pressure)to the wind. It also reduces the required turn to bring the boom over. BUT (this is critical) keep hold of the original (90% angle sheeting grip) i.e. collect the sheet in your hand.
3. gybe firmly and keep your weight already on the new windward side. The boom will come over really fast and you won't have time to move quick enough if you are all the way on the other side. While the boom goes over, release the bundle of sheet from your hand. This allows the boom go over far enough to not force the boom into water. If you keep the 1/3 angle the force will tilt you before you have established yourself to the new tack.

If unsure, just complete the turn until you are sideways to the wind = no pressure to the rig. Once you have established yourself to the new side, bear away. This is not the fastest way but faster than capsizing.
 
Good stuff there, Matt! Food for thought, and things to practice with next time it is honking. I did have my outhaul tight and vang fairly tight, and my rig just seemed so loaded on all the downwind legs Sunday. I'm trying your way next windy day-the proof is in the score.

Huge regret I have: not sailing that final race Sunday! Oh, well.
 
In big winds, sheet in as if you are on a reach. This reduces the sail area catching wind and gives you more control. The boat will stop rocking. Vang off. Jibe at full speed and Fast. Always keep the board up half way as sugested. A second advantage of sheeting is less of your mainsheet is out and it will not catch your transom when you jibe. Always remember to whip you main sheet to pick up the slack.

The most important thing is practice. Get out and sail around in high winds.
 
OK. I just had my first windy day of the season, (and my first dya after being out of the Laser for about 5 years). We had about 15 sustained and wicked 25 mph puffs. First race was a bit tough off the breeze. I rolled and capsized twice, but in the second race I did all the above mentioned downwind de-power tricks. Eased vang, loose outhaul, cunningham still on and a bit overtrimmed. It worked like a charm. Never went over. The puff would hit and the only thing I had to fight was the boats urge to head up. Once past that initial, "round up" tendancy the boat would flatten out, and take off nice and stable. Next time out in breeze I will not have to worry about the dw leg so much!
 
Thats good to hear Rob. In some of our big wind races, just staying up can be a winning strategy but how did you go speed-wise ? Was anyone else being more adventurous/risky and going significantly faster than you ? Have you tried the "By the Lee" strategy for avoiding and re-covering from a death roll ?
 
Sailing by the Lee has the same net effect in reducing the sail area. But gives you less control. I found that sheeting in does not effect my speed, but my boat control is greatly improved. Keep in mind I am over 200 lbs and when I am over powered it is blowing pretty hard ie over 30
 
Staying up and in control was key. Speed wise I was fine. There were 2 sailors close enough to try and make a pass. The closest guy weighed about 15-20 lbs more than me and he sailed downwind a bit more powered up with more vang, tighter outhaul and more sail out. He seemed a little faster, but he was doing the "cockpit tango" quite a bit trying to stay upright. I think all of his "swerving" took away any gains he made from better speed. I could also jibe more often, (and there were shifts so jibing on them was important). The other guy close to me made no gains and I could not tell his trim, but I think he was in conservative mode like me, but he did not jibe as often as I did.

I did sail by the lee a bit and was always overtrimmed when I did. When I felt comfortable I would ease the sheet out a bit to expose more sail square to the breeze. When a puff would come through while sailing by the lee and I started to roll a little I would give a quick 3 foot yank on the sheet and the roll would go away.

Having eyes in the back of my head would have helped. I tried to look back as often as possible to prepare for puffs as they were easy to spot on the water and the rolling of boats behind when they would get the blast.

abenn said:
Thats good to hear Rob. In some of our big wind races, just staying up can be a winning strategy but how did you go speed-wise ? Was anyone else being more adventurous/risky and going significantly faster than you ? Have you tried the "By the Lee" strategy for avoiding and re-covering from a death roll ?
Click to expand...
 
I guess if you're sailing straight downwind with the main sheeted in quite a bit, your'e probably sailing by the Lee anyway ? Although with a loose outhaul it might be hard for the wind to stick to the lee side of the sail.
 
Not really. If your stern is square to the breeze then you are ddw. It's not the position of the boom to the breeze that determines your angle of sail its the position on the boat. The boom position is your sail trim. Sometimes you're over trimmed, sometimes under trimmed, sometimes just right.

abenn said:
I guess if you're sailing straight downwind with the main sheeted in quite a bit, your'e probably sailing by the Lee anyway ? Although with a loose outhaul it might be hard for the wind to stick to the lee side of the sail.
Click to expand...
 
I realise what you're saying, but what I meant was, if the boat is ddw and the main/boom is sheeted in (say 45deg), then the wind (from dead astern) will be going across the sail from leach to luff - ie in reverse to "normal" sailing. I took this to be the definition of "By the lee".
This is why it stops the death roll. Various sources explain the death roll as being caused by the sail being let out (eg 90deg), wind moving across in the normal direction and exiting the sail (esp at the top) at right angles to the boat - hence tending to push it over to windward with every gust.
 
OK, but you do not have to sheet in that far. Square trim ddw is with the boom out 90 deg. I'd say max max overtrim was about 75 deg. You're correc with the part of the cause of the roll is when the wind is trying to find a way to exit the sail. With too much vang on the upper part of the sail will not open for the breeze to escape. Part of easing the vang is to get the upper portion of the leech open and allow an easier escape for the breeze. Also with the vang on, outhaul on and boom out the center of effort on the sail is extended out to leeward of the boat which also induces roll. With the outhaul eased, vang loose and sail overtrimmed the center of effort is back closer the the center of the boat which eases roll and helps w/overall stability.
 
The advantage to sheeting in versus Sailing by the lee is having the centre of gravity/ force of your sail on your side of the mast. Sailing by the lee in heavy air puts the main force of the sail in front of the mast. This causes your bow to be pushed down and submarine. It also causes the rock and roll leading to a death roll.
 
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