Totally agree with 49208 that this is a non-issue. Go sail and have fun!
If it is such a non issue, why was the Radial developed in the first place? Exactly because weight is an issue in this boat. Smaller sailors couldn't compete in the Full Rigs, and the class realized it was unfair for them to have to try in the big rigs. What's the difference here?
The class has a tradition of trying to eliminate unfair advantage. That's why we have Masters divisions as well. Big guys sailing Radials is no different than young guys sailing in a Masters regatta. We know how physical the boat is, and try to make it fun for everyone to compete and have a chance to win at some level. And that's what the Radial is for. And when big guys sail the radial in big winds, they negate that effort.
The Laser class has NEVER tried to break down the groups by weight. It's always been the individual sailors CHOICE to decide which rig to race with.
But it has also always made an effort to make fleets equitable (Radial rig, masters divisions). Why not weight restrictions? Because it's never been done? That's not an argument. If, when the Masters catagories were discussed, someone had said "let's not do Masters catagories because it's never been done before," would you have agreed to that?
While the predictions for Halifax may be for heavy air, it's no guarantee, heck the weather in New England this summer has been so different this year from other years.
You've known the venue for quite some time, if you honestly believe that more weight is an advantage, did you take control what you have control of, ie increase your body weight.
Who says I don't have control of this issue? I have a voice. I am a member of the fleet. I can have my say. Maybe by airing this issue, some of those who shouldn't be in the Radial fleet will realize it and go to the full rigs where they can compete on a level playing field.[/B]
Weather predictions are just that. These big guys are taking a gamble.
Remember the recent Olympics? Only light winds were predicted for the venue (Qingdao).
1. The US Star team built a Star just for those conditions and in fact, they did well in the first light-wind race(s). Then the wind piped up and they sank to the bottom with respect to the results.
2. Two Tornado teams had special spinnakers designed for the supposedly light conditions. Were they ever wrong, and the results showed it.
PS: As an aside, remember the Medal race in the 49er class? True mayhem in 20+ mph, but so much fun to watch.
I humbly submit, the advantage of weight in big wind far outstrips less weight in light winds. There is no comparison, in fact. It is unfair to try to link those issues together.
I heard a rumor that there are guys well over 180lbs that plan to sail the Radial rig at the Masters in Halifax. Doesn't that smack of unsportsmanlike behaviour? I mean, come on, they have an alternative. If they can't handle the Full Rig when they weigh above 180lbs, maybe they shouldn't be sailing at the Worlds.
Comments? What do you think?
I have no problem with you putting forward a suggestion for a future change to include weight classes although IMHO it's un-nec as I believe it's self-regulating.
I don't understand your stance against the "rumored guys well over 180lbs" IMHO, they have done nothing unsportsmanlike by entering the radial division. They are playing by the stated rules.. (and I think it will be interesting to see if they show up at the event still weighing well over 180lbs - me thinks they will be dieting down to get to 175-180 or even less)
OK, put some facts out on the table.
Someone you know - Mike Matan - Has lost weight, working hard to get down to 190 or less from approx 210 a few years ago. Why ? Because he realized the exact opposite of what you are theorizing. Instead of relying on weight to go fast upwind, he has learned technique and is more then happy to tradeoff a little bit of upwind gain for a bigger offwind gain and at the same time the lighter weight has brought his results up in lighter air.
Someone else you know - Marc Jacobi - struggles to keep his weight over 175, yet hangs in there upwind in a breeze and flys downwind. In lighter air, the 200+lb guys look like anchored objects around him.
You had another thread going where you mentioned Mike Leigh and Fred Abels. I know you did not compare them directly, and with no disrespect towards Fred, they are on different skill and physical levels.
Out of curiosity, what weight do you intend to sail at in Halifax, and what weight would you sail at if it were a light wind venue ?
Is it also unsportsmanlike that there are folks out there who can afford not to work and therefore train/sail as much as they like, or hire coaches ? Show up with a new sail ?
This is a good point, but not the one up for discussion.
What weight do you plan on sailing the worlds ? And is that your normal race weight or have you added weight for this event ?
160lb. Normal weight.
Can you give us a few real people that support your claim of "the advantage of weight in big wind far outstrips less weight in light winds. There is no comparison, in fact. It is unfair to try to link those issues together" ?
I have a huge advantage with I race in the Radial against 140lb guys in big winds. I don't think anyone can say they don't see the advantage when the wind blows. It's too obvious to argue, frankly.
I think my point here is that there was never any inclination by the laser class towards "choice." That there has always been, by manipulation of the rules of the class, some effort to make the class competitive and fun for everyone. I don't think it is a stretch to say that if you put an upper weight limit on the Radial Fleet in Catagory 1 regattas and Masters events of say, 180lb, it makes the racing better.
Hello all, here's my 10 cents on the matter,
I am a heavy (around 180 pounds) radial sailor, as a female sailor in the UK sailing radials is the only option if you want to compete against other girls. To put this into perspective at the recent U.K nationals approximately 1/4 of the helms in a 90 boat radial fleet were female whereas in the full rig there wasn't a lady single entry. As i am around 5ft 9 i simply cannot handle a full rig in moderately strong wind and I'm far from unfit. If there was to be an upper weight limit on radials i would be forced to sail an alternative class of boats or undergo a serious fitness regime to sail a full rig. Even then i would have no women to sail against. It should be down to the individual sailor to choose which rig to sail as even within a single race the wind could drop by 15 knots making those who's extra weight was advantageous upwind at the start of the race then end hindering them in the last upwind leg. Really weight doesn't play as much of a part in laser results than fitness, boat handling or racing tactics
so true
Are you also going to suggest height limits? Leverage makes a big difference too. Even when I was heavy enough for the full rig I was too short to make use of that weight. The short heavy guy and the tall light guy could both be quite happy in the same rig.
Weight limits in the radial are just not needed. Weight is a factor but not a big enough factor to have any real impact on performance unless you are massively over/under the range. Fitness, training, skill will have a much much bigger impact.
Personally I feel you should pick a rig and sail it 100% of the time, irrespective of conditions. This should be whatever rig the person feels comfortable with throughout the wind range, not necessarily what the weight range states.