Back to sailing - some questions

[vtsailer]

I purchased a Sunfish clone and have been sailing twice. It's been 15 years since I last sailed. I've been very pleased with how well things have come back to me. My second outing was in brisk winds, I kept better control of the boat than I expected.

I have a couple of questions, though:

1) I'm struggling with sailing upwind. Am I correct that you want to pull the sail in as much as possible when sailing upwind? My big struggle is figuring out the best angle to sail into the wind. I never feel like I can find that sweet spot that gives you speed but also gives you a good angle into the wind. With the sail pulled in, I vary the angle, but I just can't seem to get into a groove. I must look like I'm drunk.

2) I'm also struggling with trimming the sail itself. I just don't feel like it's always trimmed right. I know that I'm supposed to pull it in just past the point where it luffs, but I'm not really noticing much luff in the sail. There is no such thing as having the halyard too tight, it there? Perhaps lateen sails luff less because they are flat. In my defense, I sail in very hilly terrain, and the hills come right up to the lake. The wind changes direction depending on what part of the lake you are in. It makes learning somewhat challenging.

3) What benefit would I get from a wind vane? Will it help with trimming the sail? How do you use a wind vane?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Wayne]

1) I'm struggling with sailing upwind. Am I correct that you want to pull the sail in as much as possible when sailing upwind?

2a) I'm also struggling with trimming the sail itself. I just don't feel like it's always trimmed right. I know that I'm supposed to pull it in just past the point where it luffs, but I'm not really noticing much luff in the sail.

2b) There is no such thing as having the halyard too tight, is there? Perhaps lateen sails luff less because they are flat.

3) What benefit would I get from a wind vane? Will it help with trimming the sail? How do you use a wind vane?

[ 1 ] see #2a

[ 2a ] You may be over trimming. If you let the sail out, at some point the back edge (sail leech) is going to flutter (luff).

[ 2b ] Definitions ... to be certain we're talking about the same thing:

• Halyard ... line that raises and secures the sail.
• Main Sheet ... line that controls the sail's angle relative to the wind.

... see 2a

[ 3 ] Wind indicators are very handy. There are two types and they can be used together or separately..., The wind directional indicator and air flow over the sail telltales (telltails).

A wind directional indicator tells you where the apparent wind is coming from. This is the wind you are adjusting your sail to.

http://www.windline.net/wind_indic.htm

Drawing - Daniel Feldman, Wind Line Sails
​

Telltales show the airflow over the sail and let you know if the sail is trimmed efficiently.

http://www.sailtexas.com/tellt.html

. . . all this works in conjunction with your Point of Sail:

Click image to enlarge, click the (+) in the upper L of the larger image for full size

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[vtsailer]

I think that I'm probably trying an angle that's too close to the wind. I've always thought that 45 degrees from the wind is standard. Looks like I should plan on at least 50 or 60 degrees.

I understand that a wind vane shows apparent wind, but what do you do with that information?

As for the halyard, I was just thinking that the upper spar could be too tight as pulled by the halyard. I doubt it's possible, but I was wondering.

 

[Wavedancer]

I think that I'm probably trying an angle that's too close to the wind. I've always thought that 45 degrees from the wind is standard. Looks like I should plan on at least 50 or 60 degrees.

On the water you won't be able to tell whether you are at 45 or 50 degrees. And you may be a 'pincher' (closer to the wind) or a 'footer' (a bit off the wind, but faster). Moreover, you can sail closer to the wind on starboard tack than on port tack because of the interference of the mast on the flow across the sail.

I understand that a wind vane shows apparent wind, but what do you do with that information?

A vane low on the gaff (at eye sight) will give you advance info on shifts. Very helpful. Don't worry, or even think about, apparent wind.

As for the halyard, was just thinking that the upper spar could be too tight as pulled by the halyard. I doubt it's possible, but I was wondering.

The tighter the better (and use non-stretch line); if you are in doubt, study Dave Loring's DVD.

 

[Wayne]

I think that I'm probably trying an angle that's too close to the wind. I've always thought that 45 degrees from the wind is standard. Looks like I should plan on at least 50 or 60 degrees.

The 45º mark is the theoretical limits for pointing a sailboat toward the wind. Hull design and sail plan can change this some..., in the case of deep fin, bulb keel, high aspect ratio sail rig yachts, 10º. The lateen sail is just the opposite and 50º is more like it for a Sunfish.

I understand that a wind vane shows apparent wind, but what do you do with that information?

You mentally calculate where you have the boat pointed in comparison and that tells you proximity to the No Sail Zone.

Davis Instruments has a wind indicator called the Windex 15® with outrigger flags so you can see this relationship, however it doesn't fit a Sunfish.

Keep in mind, when you point close to the limit your speed drops despite the way mainsheet tension, heeling force, and rudder pull, make it feel. A couple of tacks at a lower point of sail, though farther distance, will often get you to your destination faster.

Aside from when you are "pointing high", it's a general reference tool for wind shifts as Wavedancer mentioned.

As for the halyard, I was just thinking that the upper spar could be too tight as pulled by the halyard. I doubt it's possible, but I was wondering.

You can over tighten it, but the consiquences aren't for the sail and spar. The upper spar should be raised "snuggly" to the mast top. If you are using a good quality low-stretch line for your halyard it should not sag.

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[L&VW]

You can over tighten it, but the consequences aren't for the sail and spar. The upper spar should be raised "snuggly" to the mast top. If you are using a good quality low-stretch line for your halyard it should not sag.

My first post here, but I actually can add something!

I didn't care much for my "medium-stretch" halyard every so often, I would have to re-secure it.

But one day, I'd left my sail up at a mooring. As I watched, swirling winds turned the sail around the mast a couple of times.

Not only was the tension on that halyard severe, but I thought the mast could be driven through the bottom of my Sunfish's mast step as a result!

 

[Wayne]

But one day, I'd left my sail up at a mooring. As I watched, swirling winds turned the sail around the mast a couple of times.

Not only was the tension on that halyard severe, but I thought the mast could be driven through the bottom of my Sunfish's mast step as a result!

is right.

What's most probable is the screws for the halyard block or fairlead (depending on generation) would be stripped from their anchoring block on the under side of the deck.

For normal circumstances halyard tension can be mitigated by a horn cleat added to the mast, but in your case the real issue is un-rigging the mainsheet and leaving the sail up.

A low stretch halyard may not have wrapped, but the leverage of an over pivoting sail would have still existed. Yup, not good for the equipment.

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