Well I consider myself in pretty good shape. I am 19 years old and I don't think I should be having back issues. It feels like sore muscles. I think you are right about slouching.. I would have never noticed it. Maybe I just have to get used to using different muscles? It is a aching pain in my upper back.. can't even think about sailing without it hurting.
I find that I pretty much always ache after a hard days sailing in heavy winds but rarely do I ache after a light wind day.
Perhaps you should consider doing a few stretches when you come off the water just to eek out any potential aches (that and make sure you stretch to warm up before you go out of course).
I do an all round gym program but with a focus on core stability (so lots of gym ball related stuff with free weights). It has made a huge difference, I do not get anywhere near as tired and can stay focused for longer that before.
That and make sure you stay warm, it is surprising how much a little cold and damp can make you ache after sailing!
I don't know about stretching before going out. I might stretch after doing my warm up on the water, but stretching when your muscles are cold/unworked isn't great/effective. Definitely stretch after sailing.
I kind of lol at "gym ball stuff". Why? Why not just do some heavy core work? Heavy overhead presses, heavy deadlifts, heavy squats, weighted sit ups, side bends? The first three alone will make your core incredibly strong, along with your lower back, without even adding in any other core work at all. I can attest to this.
Someone has made a killing off of gym balls...
Pressing heavy weights does not have the same effect as having to balance on a gym ball when doing other ab work. One of the problems I have is that my stomach muscles are not strong enough so my lower back is being worked harder to try and compansate for it. When exercising on the gym ball you really can feel the muscles being worked (even when using no additional weights).
For example on the mat I can easily do 40+ obliques (20 each side). On the ball I can barely manage half that without needing a break. When I started on the ball I could barely do more than 14.
Ab curls (crunches whatever you want to call them). I could do these pretty much all day if on the mat. On the ball I could barely manage 20 without need to stop.
Now things are different. and i cannot see how pressing any amount of weight helps with the core muscles (stomach, lower back). The ball however has had noticable effects for me.
You didn't even look at the link I posted, did you?
There have been no studies linking training on unstable surfaces to athletic performance.
When you choose to do an exercise on a ball, you have to use less weight, thereby reducing strength gains.
Instead of doing body weight oblique crunches for such high reps, why not try side bends with a dumbbell for 3 sets of 12-15. Let me know how your obliques feel after those.
Same with sit-ups. Just do decline sit-ups, holding a weight/plate.
Pressing will strengthen your core. This is fact. Please don't try and say otherwise. Same as overhead squats. Overhead press will work your abdominals, obliques, costal muscles, and back, which all stabilize the spine. If you've never done an overhead press, don't knock it, especially in an incorrect manner.
If you're looking for a movement that incorporates almost your entire body, try deadlifting. Involves your lower back to a large extent, as well as your core.
Do you squat?
What do your current gym routine look like?
You seriously need to chill out man!
The link you posted was just that a link with no explaination of what it was. Call me suspicious but I don't go clicking on every seemingly random link that gets posted on a forum.
The fact is you have your belief I have mine. My regeime is working for me.
I do not need to build muscle mass I need to tone and optimise what muscle I have. I am already too heavy for the Laser on the water I sail on (hence why I also have an 8.1) so I have to draw the line between gaining muscle mass (I have very little body fat to convert) and toning up what I have.
That may sound like a contradiction but the program I have is tailored for me by my personal trainer who spent a lot of time examining the muscle groups that are in use specifically in relation to sailing.
I also firmly believe that if you want to sail to get fit then that's fine, you need to accept that you are going to pay for it by aching for a day or so afterwards. To improve your racing you need to get fit to sail.
The Laser is one of the most physical boats out there to sail, a lot of it is sheer brute force to keep the thing driving effectively (i.e. you sailing the boat not the boat sailing you).
I've deleted Shatty007's link because it appears to me to just carry the discussion to another (less civil) forum. Shatty, if you've got a link to some scientific evidence, you are welcome to post it.
Hi Eddie I think that you have pulled a back muscle & have a muscle spasm in your back. Have you had a weakness here before? I think that twisting doesn't help.
I have had several such episodes & the other weekend needed to spend 60 hrs in bed & every time I moved it felt like "labour pains" (although I am a bloke). Unfortunately I do have a weakness in my back & it intermittently recurs. I find ibobrufen & either panadol or panadeine best ,although last time I needed valium& codeine as well (not as good as it sounds).
Anyhow it takes about a week to come right!
Also, I'm afraid that I was doing free squats at the gym, with a weight belt, that caused this recent episode.I was doing low reps/high weights ie 90 kg 6 reps of 6 & I am 74 kg & 48 yr old. So as a result I won't be doing free squats again & have reduced all my other weights.
There's no point in getting injured.
Anyway I'm sure you will be coming right by now.
Good luck.
cheers Hamish A NZ radial sailor
Always remember, a personal trainer is a business man, who has to sell himself to put a roof over his head and food on the table. Are they all bad? Of course not. Are they all good? Same applies.
Alright. I'll show you what I do in the gym currently:
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I see you have a lot of machine exercises in your program. Why not free weights, as an alternative.
Also, say, if strength was a goal, you would want to do your strength training before your cardio. If you're blasting yourself before you hit the weights, are you leaving anything left in the tank?
With the leg press and leg curls, why not just kill 2 birds with one stone and squat? Squats are great for total body strength. Legs, back, etc.
Think movements, not isolation exercises. You want to train the movement, not the/a single muscle.
Also, you listed weights beside the exercises. Are those the most recent, or do you do the same every week? You should try to progress each week, adding either weight or reps.
Again, I am someone with no professional training/certifications.
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every time I moved it felt like "labour pains" (although I am a bloke).
At the gym I go to it is not run as a commercial enterprise it is run by our local council. So while it is there to make some money the primary service is for the community. The PT who I see is very nice and her time is included with the montly subscription so she has noting to gain by wasting mine and her time.
Were I at a commercial gym I would be more wary.
The machines are used because they more effectively isolate the muscle groups that are being worked whereas using a free-weight exercise would not do this as effectively.
The gym ball work is to increase abs strength and help with core-stability and balance (you really can feel your core working when balancing on the ball). It has made a big diffference for me so i am a happy man. I just need to keep the motivation up!
How much experiance on a laser have you got Shatty007??
"I wouldn't advocate sailing to get fit, either. I realise the Laser is a physical boat, having sailed one a couple times myself (Laser 1, Standard Rig), which is why I would advocate being strong as hell to get the best out of yourself."
I strongly suggest that people don't listen to exercise advice off the internet, same with medical advice. A lot of gym instructors & personal trainers at least in Australia have only completed a short 2-4 week course, whilst there are good ones out their, it does pay to look at their qualification and also listen to what your body is saying as it's easy to do lots of damage.
If anyone one wants to read a comprehensive book on fitness and training specific to sailing, Michael Blackburn's book "Sail Fitter" is very good and he has a PhD in Sports Science.
Personally, if I was going to the gym, I'd rather work muscles in isolated groups where it's easier to do an exercise properly, doing general weights training can lead to doing the exercise incorrectly and doing more harm than good. I know when I was recovering from an ACL reconstruction, the fitness program was for several months based on isolated groups.
However, most of my fitness training is either on the boat, cycling or climbing (mostly indoor but occassionally outdoor). The cycling works the bottom half well and the climbing works the upper half well.
Dunno if it’s sarcasm Shatty,
Just think you should relax on pushing your opinion on everyone else. A forum is here for open friendly discussion.
You need to chill a bit bro...
This is intended in the nicest way possible, and am sure you great at stuff.
I truly respect and read your opinion on stuff and think you a cool dude.
*whosh*
Well something went someone's head.:rollseyes:
Over.
Shatty, those people you mention might be big on the web, but I've never heard of them. And I'd trust there advice as much as any exercise program put out by some celebrity. IMO relevant degree or higher qualifications from recognized colleges/universities count.
"Big on the web"?
Come on man!!!! That did make me mad. I won't curse, because then my post will just get deleted.
"Big on the web, but I've never heard of them".
They must be nobodies then, Alan. You're right. You shouldn't trust them at all. No correct literature gets passed over the web, or in video tutorials, done by the people themselves. They must use robotic fakes.
I explained to you Mark Rippetoe's credentials. All these guys have certs/qualifications. Not that a piece of paper in your hand makes you automatically better at something. Surely you're not that naive?
You definitely shouldn't take five seconds to at least Google them before saying something as completely unnecessary what you have said. That wouldn't make sense at all.
"Big on the web". I cannot get over that.
These Tom Slingsby and Paul Goodison guys might be big on the web, but I've never heard of them. I'd trust their sailing advice as much as I'd trust sailing advice put out by some celebrity. If they don't have a college degree or some piece of paper certification in their hand deeming them able to give me advice, they're worthless to me.
Does that sound as utterly stupid to you as it does to me?
Laser sailing in general requires a certain level of flexibility and core fitness, without knowing how you stack up in those, it's pretty difficult to answer if it's techique or something else.