A new clew tie-down sleeve?

Would you be consider buying a "JC Tie-Down Sleeve"?


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
#21
it's my impression from Shevy's post that the JC model incorporates a hook for direct attachment of the sail's clew, not simply a point of contact for the purpose of securing the sail to the boom. This feature would substantially improve the rigging and emergency dumping performance of such a system since the sail could be free, with the outhaul lines and block slacked until the moment you decided to "clip" on or off. Do I have this concept correct?
 
#23
Perhaps no one is interested in posting a picture until ILCA makes some declaration of their interest/no interest. This would delay the oppty for others to quickly knock off the design and come to market with a competitive, if not slimy substitute.
 
#24
After reading about the sleeve, I did some trials the other week with a piece of PVC stormwater pipe that was slightly larger in diameter than the boom. I cut a piece about 5 inches long and then cut a slit down its length so I could open it out to fit over the end of the boom. I then tied my clew-tie-down around the PVC in the fashion that I would normally do around the boom.

Now this was a very rudimentary solution to the flash options being discussed here, BUT, the system was quite effective!

If you can tie the clew down tightly to the PVC there are very little losses in leech tension. The PVC slides more easily along the boom than does rope. PVC is cheap! You do not have to take the boom apart to fit the sleeve. People who can tie knots can have just as an effective system as those who can spend money!

I am not saying my system was perfect, but for a forst attempt, I was fairly impressed.


Hope this helps.
 
#25
wabbit said:
I did some trials the other week with a piece of PVC stormwater pipe [...] People who can tie knots can have just as an effective system as those who can spend money!
Pretty cool idea! If the ILCA decides to allow this kind of modification, perhaps they could consider wording the rule to allow a range of implementations like JC's and yours.

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 
#26
Here is a hint to the "JC tie down sleeve":

The following quotation is to find on page 7 of a pdf-file at www_laser_org:

http://www.laser.org/c/cnt/down/2004AGM.pdf

Start of Quotation:
"

Report of the 2004 ILCA World Council Meeting
Friday May 21, 2004

(...)

Perhaps the longest single discussion topic of the meeting centered on the various
proposed rule changes and rule interpretations. There were many “minor” proposed
changes, such as an interpretation on allowing one rivet to be used to attach a soft boom
strap, allowing a slightly larger diameter rudder bolt (driven by English vs. metric
systems), allowing rope splices in the traveler, etc. The two most interesting proposed
rule changes centered on proposals aimed at centerboard and centerboard trunk wear, and
on the “John Christiansen Boom Sleeve.” There were a total of three proposals aimed at
the problem of centerboard and trunk wear, ranging from allowing tape in the top few
inches of the of the trunk to allowing “wear strips” (similar to the Byte and 29er classes)
along the top and bottom edges of the trunk. At the end, it was recognized that there is a
problem but none of the proposed rule changes provided a solution consistent with the
Laser Class rules so the issue was sent to the Technical Committee for further
consideration. The boom sleeve was tested by two of the World Council members, both
of whom found it to significantly reduce the friction at the boom end making it amazingly
easier to adjust the outhaul while sailing upwind in breeze. Concerns were raised
regarding long term “real life” performance and potential cost issues. Again, this item
was referred back to the Technical Committee for further testing and consideration.



(...)

"
End of Quotation

Now, my question is: When do they decide, to get this sleeve classlegal -
2005, 2008, 2012?

[And do you understand that about what is now allowed, f.e. with "the problem of centerboard and trunk wear"? Maybe this is also something to discuss deeper in seperate threads - I understand nothing... if I read that words in the report]

Chiao
LooserLu
 
#27
Thanks for posting the note about the Class-Association discussions!


LooserLu said:
And do you understand that about what is now allowed, f.e. with "the problem of centerboard and trunk wear"? Maybe this is also something to discuss deeper in seperate threads - I understand nothing... if I read that words in the report
There was a resonable discussion (esp. the rules) about the problem of the leading edge of the centerboard wearing a groove in the top/forward area of the centerboard trunk:
RANT - leading edge of daggerboard trunk

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 
#28
after talking to the ILCA technical director today (Adam French), the general feeling about the jc sleeve was good apart from the cost issues, he did also mention that they also liked the pvc pipe sleeve instead of aluminium, for cost reasons (i am unsure if they got the pvc pipe idea from 'wabbit' of TLF or not).

another problem is the long term wear on the boom by the sleeve, a test is being conducted to assess if or how much wear the jc sleeve causes on the boom
 
#29
Murphs said:
after talking to the ILCA technical director today (Adam French), the general feeling about the jc sleeve was good apart from the cost issues, he did also mention that they also liked the pvc pipe sleeve instead of aluminium, for cost reasons (i am unsure if they got the pvc pipe idea from 'wabbit' of TLF or not).

another problem is the long term wear on the boom by the sleeve, a test is being conducted to assess if or how much wear the jc sleeve causes on the boom
Thank you Chris, I think, this information helps for waiting and to get calm again :). This with the wearing seems to be a problem, I´m in the same opinion and I agree to the point: better let the pros test it and make it maximum perfect, than quarrel about this "wearing-footprints at the boom" later on. I personally would prefer one of metall and not that with plastic (also a very cool idear), because it has probably more durability, although *wabbits* solution could be the cheaper and lighter one.

Maybe the builders have little look to drLasers-tie-downs and make some tiny wheels (balls) into that J-C-tie-down for more reducing the friction and the wearing footprints.
To reduce the wight of that new JC-tie-down, they could think about alu or titan. But alu is maybe 2 smooth and titan is horrible expensive - I´ll wait and see what they design and build.

Chiao
LooserLu
 
#30
I'm using spectra at the moment, if you tie it in a loop in it you can pass the loop through clew, around the boom and back over the knot, it holds in place well, slides and is easy to undo.
 
#35
drLaser said:
Hi,

In a post on April 8, I had noted that "JC Tie-down Sleeve", an article about the re-engineered clew tie-down fitting designed by John Christianson was made available in the "Class & Racing Rules" and "Maintenance" sections of the drLaser web site.

Since then, the "JC Tie-down Sleeve" was being tested by ILCA NA Vice Chairman Tracy Usher, and is now on its way to the Worlds at Bitez, Turkey so that the World Council members can have a chance to seriously consider it and test-sail it.

The "JC Tie-down Sleeve" is a cylindrical polished stainless steel part that fits snugly around your boom end and allows you to quickly and securely attach your clew grommet to it. The clew is attached by just hooking it to an internal hook on the sleeve.

The advantages of the system are:
1) allowing you to keep your clew really far down, flat against the boom, giving you a tight leech and thus reducing the load on your vang - a feat impossible with a line tie-down, no matter what kind of line you use, while
2) allowing you to unhook the clew from the boom in a snap, for adverse landing or emergency conditions, and
3) eliminating almost all the friction of the tir-down on the boom.

Those who resist the introduction of this new "gizmo" as a legal Laser part cite that:
1) nobody really needs this (except maybe for hot-shot racers for whom a tight leech is crucial), and
2) a hooked clew can never be as secure as a tied clew, and may accidentally release from the hook in certain deathrolls.

The drLaser article points out that the design is such that it is impossible for the clew grommet to accidentally release from the hook withou human help.


In consideration of the pending World Council review of this new part, it may be interesting to determine if such a new part would have grassroots support. Both the World Council and the designer - a long-time Laserite, himself - would probably want to know if such a part would have a market.

I would appreciate it if you took the poll and voiced your opinions based on the above and/or the (ILCA Members Only) drLaser article.

Shevy Gunter
Member, ILCA-NA
Editor, drLaser
I would love to see a stainless tie down sleeve introduced to the class because it would make the boat much easier to rig and outhaul adjustment would be improved as well.

Regards,

Fred Herr
 
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