6:1 outhaul - diagram?

Thread starter #1
I keep reading that a 6:1 outhaul based on the Vanguard Performance Upgrade kit's rigging is desirable, but for the life of me I can't figure out how you rig it without using an (illegal?) double block at the gooseneck. I'm sure it's simple, and I'm just missing something obvious.

Does anyone have a diagram (or a *very* simple descrition) of how to rig it?

Cheers,

Geoff S.
145234
 
Thread starter #2
I think I get it (now that I've re-read the rules a bit). Two single blocks at the gooseneck?

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 

Philip

New Member
#3
Go to www.roostersailing.com

Steve does an upgrade. Basically it is a block fixed to the calm cleat on the boom.

With Steve's kit you have a spectra primary that goes from the ring at the end of the boom through the block with the sail hook on it, then back through the boom ring and terminating on a block with a becket (call this block A).
The secondary then ties on the becket of block A goes along the boom, through the block on the boom clam cleat then back along the boom and through block A, then back along the boom, through the block on the goose neck and down to the block on the deck and to the deck cleat.


Phil
 
#5
@ GeoffS
Hi,
go to German Laser Website www.laserklasse.de;
then go to "service";
then go to "Jeff Martin erläutert die Rules ( Bilder )" ( = "Jeff Martin one of the big bosses of the ILCA explains the classrules (with pic´s)");
text is in English, so you don´t need lessons in German language ;-) .

In all cases, no more than six "turning-points" are allowed for the outhaul + 2 turningpoints, to get to the curry cleat at the hull. Remember, this Shevy allready disscussed with us at the thread about "how many blocks are allowed to attach to the outhaul clamcleat". ...
Also at drLaserwebsite (at maintance & fittness) are some desciptions for the vanguard- system. But I thing you have allready had a look to this
bye
LooserLu
 

Philip

New Member
#6
Hi LooserLu

you missed a link out after service go to
News zum Umbau Kit !!!!!
then Jeff Martin

This shows only a 4:1 system not the newer 6:1 that people are now using
The rooster system has one block on the goose neck and a second on the boom clamcleat not two blocks on the goose neck, this makes it slightly tider but is the same

Phil
 
#7
oops

Hi,
many thanks Philip, you are absolutely right. The description for the Outhaul at the German Laser website is at that place that you say and it is also not new enough. So GeoffS forget this link, sorry for that.
Next-time, I look more intensive first and then I give you an advice...I thought there was something, but there is nothing new. There is only another text (unfortunately all in German language, but not for the 6:1 outhaul - only 2 pic´s [U1, U2] for the 4:1 and one pic [U3] for the 8:1 outhaul (=Unterliekstrecker)), maybe the pic´s are interesting for you, or give you inspiration. The link is
www.laserklasse.de/pdf_files/pdf_2002/Upgrade_selfmade.pdf
bye
LooserLu
 
Thread starter #8
Thanks everybody! I have a pretty good idea how to rig the outhaul now.

A related question: does anyone know of any really good reason(s) for putting the turning block on the outhaul clam-cleat vs. the gooseneck?

It *seems* (and I may be missing something here) to me that it's slightly better to have the 3:1 purchase further forward on the boom, as that leaves just the single, thinner cascase line runing the long distance from the becket clock on the forward part of the boom back to the outhaul fairlead, rather than having the slighly thicker 3:1 line running from the mid/aft end of the boom all the way forward. It would also seem to be easier to keep the single thin cascade line against the boom, instead of the heavier 3:1 line and all the blocks.

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Geoff S.
145234
 
#10
Geoff asked:
> does anyone know of any really good reason(s) for putting the
> turning block on the outhaul clam-cleat vs. the gooseneck?

I presume you don't really mean a "TURNING block" but just "a block" here. (Customarily, a "turning block" is a block that only changes the direction of the line without contributing to the power ratio of the system.)

Yes, in a 6:1 (or 8:1) system, there were two separate reasons for fixing the stationary block for the outhaul cascade system at the boom clamcleat. (And I'm not claiming anything about whether these reasons are "good" or "bad" reasons.)

One reason is PRACTICALITY: If you are not one of those hot-shot racers who always take their lines off their bags and re-rig their outhauls from scratch, that is if you keep your outhaul semi-rigged, ready-to-go on your boom, that is if you want to minimize your rigging time... then you need to minimize the use of the mast for your outhaul system.

My 8:1 outhaul is always pre-rigged on my boom, which always stays on my hull. When I rig, there is only one thing I need to do to rig my outhaul: to attach a block (my goosenecek turning block floating on my control line) to a captive-pin shackle permanently tied to my gooseneck.

In contrast, those who use a 6:1 system with a 3:1 mast-side cascade typically need to: 1) lead the cascade line through the cascade block at the goosneck, 2) through the cascade floating block further aft, 3) through the gooseneck turning block, 4) through the deck turning block, 5) through the deck camcleat, and 6) add a handle to the end of the control line.



The other reason why the Rooster Sailing system and the drLaser systems used the clamcleat to attach blocks was just to ensure LEGALITY!

Historically, when the 2000 Rules were first published, it was illegal to attach more than one block to the gooseneck. The rule was originally "written to" the Vanguard and PSE's original 4:1 outhaul kits. At the very least, the legality of adding one more block to the gooseneck was questionable. Then, as it became clear that the 4:1 outhaul systemsv of the Builders were not satisfactory for easy foot adjustments while double-blocked close hauled, Rooster Sailing and drLaser came up with their 6:1 and 8:1 designs (respectively) using the clamcleat as an attachment point.

As a response, Vanguard changed the outhaul kit they were shipping with their "Performance Upgrade" package after several months by including and extra single block with becket to turn their 4:1 into a 6:1 system. But their instructions noted that TWO blocks had to be now tied at the gooseneck.

To accommodate the Builder's move, the ILCA World Council responded by changing ("interpreteing") the Rules to ensure attaching two blocks at the gooseneck was explicitly allowed.



Yes, "it's slightly better to have the 3:1 purchase further forward on the boom, as that leaves just the single, thinner cascase line runing the long distance from the becket clock on the forward part of the boom back to the outhaul fairlead, rather than having the slighly thicker 3:1 line running from the mid/aft end of the boom all the way forward", BUT ONLY IF YOU USE A HEAVY LINE FOR YOUR CASCADE LINE! As in the cascade lines provided in the "performance Upgrade" or the "XD Power Pack" or the "Turbo Pack" kits. But that weight advantage is more than offset if you use a llightweight line like Samson's Amsteel (Spectron 12) for your cascade lines, too. Having a 12 gram block 1 yard further aft costs you much less than using a 200 gram line rather than a 100 gram line.

The location of the cascade blocks has no effect on how hard or easy it is to keep the lines against the boom. With a proper inhaul shockcord system, the lines are always kept tightly against the boom. The rules allow using shockcord or rope loops to keep the outhaul lines against the boom, too, but I ended up removing all such loops from my system. They are redundant for my rig (my lines and my blocks).

Shevy
 
Thread starter #11
> > does anyone know of any really good reason(s) for putting the
> > turning block on the outhaul clam-cleat vs. the gooseneck?

> I presume you don't really mean a "TURNING block" but just "a block" here.

Yup. My bad.

> One reason is PRACTICALITY: [...] if you keep your outhaul semi-rigged,
> ready-to-go on your boom, [...] then you need to minimize the use of
> the mast for your outhaul system.

D'oh! Of course.
My existing "knots and thimbles" system is rigged to allow quick setup like that, too.

> Yes, "it's slightly better to have the 3:1 purchase further forward on the
> boom, as that leaves just the single, thinner cascase line runing [along the
> boom]", BUT ONLY IF YOU USE A HEAVY LINE FOR YOUR CASCADE LINE!

Good point. I'm planning to use 5/32" Swiftcord for the lines that end up in cleats and my hands, so the difference between it and the 1/8" cascade line shouldn't be much. I think rigging convenience wins here by far.

> The location of the cascade blocks has no effect on how hard or easy it is
> to keep the lines against the boom. With a proper inhaul shockcord system,
> the lines are always kept tightly against the boom. The rules allow using
> shockcord or rope loops to keep the outhaul lines against the boom, too,
> but I ended up removing all such loops from my system. They are
> redundant for my rig (my lines and my blocks).

I'm hoping to have my setup work that way, too. I hate all the extra loops and stuff. As far as I can tell, the good news is that the "throw" on the clew (i.e. the distance between max. loose and max. tight) is fairly small relative to distance between the cleat and the end of the boom so it should be pretty easy to adjust the shock-cord to keep decent tension on the clew (and the outhaul lines) all the time.

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 
#12
> it should be pretty easy to adjust the shock-cord to keep
> decent tension on the clew

Depending on your set up, the brand of "shockcord" you use may also matter. Some brands work best when stretched between 30% to 80% of their slack length - and get harder and harder to stretch the more you stretch them; some brands can be stretced up to 200% while offering consistent resistance throughout their stretch range.

SG
 
#15
I just purchased a used 2000 Laser and the prior owner had the outhaul rigged up with a double block tied off at the gooseneck. Is this illegal?

If it is not legal, I would have to rig it one of the following ways?

1) two seperate blocks tied off at the gooseneck

or

2) one block tied off at the gooseneck and one shackled to the outhaul clamcleat.

Thanks!

JohnK
 
#16
L-P Gauhtier said:
How do you rig the 6:1 VANGUARD Outhaul that comes with a Laser PRO ?
I just bought the manufacturer's cunningham / vang upgrade kit. The basic instructions show you how to do a 4:1 outhaul, then there's a second instruction sheet that purports to show you how to use an extra piece of spectra and an extra block (included) to get 6:1.

But the picture on the 2nd instruction sheet is fuzzy. It seems pretty clear that you tie two single blocks together through the goodneck and use one as a turning block and the other as part of the multi-part system, but it's not at all clear what they have in mind at the aft (clew) end of the setup.

Seems you could get the intended 6:1 by reeving the long piece spectra from the outhaul fairlead through the clew cringle, back through the outhaul fairlead, and then forward to tie it off at the aftmost double block. But the photo seems to show more than one piece of spectra tied to or rove through the bail of that double block.

Anyone?
 
#18
The instruction sheet that comes with both the Performance Upgrade and new Pro model boats from Vanguard should be quite clear, but here we go:
You have in the kit a 13' or so (I'm not looking at a contents list right now)long piece of pre-stretch, a 13' (or so) piece of 12 strand dyneema (which is fundamentally indifferentiable from Spectron 12, wonder why Shevy makes his comment about weight above other than to be a pest), a becket block, two single blocks and a short piece of thin Dyneema-cored line.
1. Take the piece of 12 strand, tie it to the outhaul eye aft on the boom. Run it through the grommet in the sail, back through the eye, then forward. Tie the becket block to the forward end of this line.
2. Take the short piece of dyneema cored line and tie a bowline onto one of the single blocks. Then wrap the other end of that line clockwise around the mast and through the bowline you tied to the single block, and tie the other single block to the end of this line. The first block you tied should be sort of hanging to the starboard side of the gooseneck, the other block should be sort of aft of the gooseneck.
3. Take the piece of pre-stretch, and tie one end to the becket on the becket block, then go forward and through the aft single block, back through the sheave on the becket block, forward through the other single block and down to the deck block.

If you like, a piece of shockcord tied between the clew and old outhaul cleat is good for a release spring.
 
#19
Thank you Dave, your instructions are perfectly clear -- you could do worse than print out your e-mail message and xerox it onto the back of the 6:1 instructions packed with the pro kit.

What you describe is exactly what I ended up doing -- I just got confused because the photo on the 6:1 page is fuzzy, and it looked like two pieces of Spectra/Dnyeema tied to the becket block rather than one.

Thanks again.
 
#20
I didn't get any info on how to rig the outhaul 6:1 only 4:1 was included in the manual.... I read all of it 20 times but nowhere they talk about the 6:1 only the 4:1 that I already knew how to rig... anyways thank you alot :)
 
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