Stuff it Kirby!!

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by gouvernail, Oct 29, 2011.

?

Are you one of the 122 or the 1017?

Poll closed Jan 27, 2012.
  1. I voted NO

    71.4%
  2. I voted for the rule change

    28.6%
  1. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Google don't help ... "Gavel Securities Ltd." (sits at the same adress like the main Laser Store at UK) still is "holding company" of LP Ltd..
    Many rumours about this company (Gavel) are to hear, around there where I live.... At my reply at this thread ( http://sailingforums.com/threads/stuff-it-kirby.23286/page-4#post-110281 ) I forgot to add the final sentence of LP (from FB, at 2011 Nov 22th ) in their answer: "LaserPerformance certainly still makes Lasers!" Sorry, folks, but a "blank line" irritated me in "copy and paste" the quotation to TLF correct :0) !!!

    @49208:
    To your question about the plaques (your reply, here at No. #87": " ... is LP still being issued plaques "): I guess you remember: The ILCA gives the plaques to the builders. So, no plaques, given to the builders, means: no class legal boats! A in the moment really big anxiety we here at GER have, related to the 2012 Seniors (m/fm) Laser Worlds at Boltenhagen/GER, believe me ...!!

    However, my deep hope is, we get enough new class legal hulls to offer to the 'pros' at the Worlds at Boltenhagen in 2012!
    {I count on that, because, I try to buy one of those nealy new "charter"-hulls, aft that event!! "Santa C. " today told me: There is some hope for me to get one, if I save enough "€'s" :) :) The new (used) car to carry one of theose hulls home of Boltenhagen I already bought, last October! Yup, it's a 2005 Volvo V70 in really good conditions ('Merrily', 'drLaser', 'gouvernail' and 'Dr_Loser' are the "far away"-witnesses!!!)
    ... Paul Goodison and UK's "Pro Laser Team " would like that (Volvo is their main sponsor) }

    Whereever you are and wherever you sail in the moment:

    Have all a peaceful Christmas-Time {especially: B.K., H.W., C.K. (CEO of PSA), N.N.(CEO of LP) and N.N. (CEO of Gavel Sec.)}

    For all of you: In attachment, in a .zip-file, I have added some lovely mp3 "X-Mas"-Songs of the here at GER famous band " Die Prinzen" (They have been members of the worldwide well known chorus "Thomaner Chor" of Leipzig, during they have been young)

    Merry Christmas!!
    LooserLu
    (The only GER-Laserite that is ranked in the official GER-ranking-list for "Master (age 45-55)" at the Standards AND the Radials ... hihi)

    {directly to:
    - Mr. Wesley W. Whitmeyer, Jr. of St. Onge Steward Johnson & Reens, LLC: I 'm not afraid of YOU (and your here secretly viewing staff)... never!! Merry Christmas + Greetings of Europe, hahaha!!}
     

    Attached Files:

  2. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Not sure about Gavel and ownership, at least in North America - There seems to be some involvement by Maclaren, which is controlled by Farzad Rastegar - Might be that Dory Ventures where Doug Metchick and Bill Crane worked, perhaps they brought Farzad to the ownership table.
     
  3. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    What? Lasers are now being built by a baby buggy company? That could explain a lot.
     
  4. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I think there are several very important questions the ILCA must answer now:

    1. Why did they go to the expense and delay of a membership vote without first checking with the ISAF (e.g. costs of independent auditors, etc.)

    2. Why did the ISAF say no (e.g. unpredictable impact or they don't agree with excluding the design rights holder or flawed voting procedures (e.g. changing wording part way through) or commercial disagreements are not the concern of the ILCA or inadequate information provided to membership or whatever other reason. They must have given reasons and it is only right that the membership are told those reasons.

    3. Is the ISAF decision their "answer" or are they "thinking" or "waiting" ?

    (probably other questions but above are those that strike me at the moment).
    Why was the above (and probably other info) not provided to the membership at the same time as the ISAF "No" announcement. Do the leadership regard the membership as so irrelevant.

    Ian
     
  5. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Some reference points to help guide idle speculation:
    1) ISAF have simply not acted on the rule change, everything being said in this thread is pure speculation based on assumption.
    2) Farzad Rastegar owns the companies that hold LP Europe and LP North America. From a working perspective, Bill Crane is Farzad's right hand man, I believe that he is technically employed by Dory Ventures. Doug Metchick was President of the top holding company but that position seems to have been something of a revolving door over the past decade, so not sure I would read anything into his moving to another company.
    3) Farzad's companies owned PSE, now LP Europe for something like a decade, so he is not new to the scene. Bill Crane has worked for Farzad for a number of years, he is not new to the scene either (and its Bill's nephew Rob that is going to represent the US in the Olympics sailing a Laser).
    4) The baby buggy company has been involved in sailing for a while now, most recently as Anna Tunnicliffe's sponsor, as well as sponsor of the Laser Slalom last summer. Interestingly, the sponsorship does not offer anything more than the name, no mention of what the company makes. Not sure what they get out of it.
    5) Its time to go back to enjoying the holiday break by going sailing!
     
  6. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    No sailing until Sunday around here .
    Hope Farzad isn't left handed.. ;)
    Interesting enough, the elder Cranes (brothers Jim and Bill) as well as Bruce Kirby all raced Sonars out of Noroton YC for years..It's always appeared to be a tightly knit YC.
    IIRC Kirby made a statement on why he had favored Global Sailing over LP/Maclaren.

    ...........

    ...........
     
  7. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    There would be a lot less speculation based on assumption if the ILCA leadership could actually give out some information. They were repeatedly asked for it during the voting process and kept silent. They are now releasing the minimum. Maybe it is a cultural thing because in Europe we believe that organisations "for the membership" should be transparent. They should communicate with the membership (those who elect them and who they are meant to be acting on behalf of). I'm quitting the Class Association now because it is a joke. When you are told nothing except "Vote Yes and really urgently" it makes a farce of the concept of a Class Association. Maybe in the US it is normal to accept people in charge to treat their roles more akin to dictatorial, but over here we are more used to greater transparency, more information and some communication.

    So are the rules staying as they are or do we expect the ISAF to do something or quite where do we stand now ? People seem unsure if Lasers are legal nothing definitive, no answers, no information - always the bare minimum.

    I would suggest an open letter to the membership explaining in detail what is actually happening, with information, ideally finishing with the words "I hereby tender my ..." because I am so unimpressed with the way this has been handled it just beggars belief.
     
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  8. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    +1...well said! (from a fellow UK sailor).

    Just rig your boat and go for a sail now, the world will seem like a better place when you are done.
     
  9. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    Let's not turn this into a US vs Europe thing. I think all of us, at least those of us living in western style democracies, expect transparency, information and communication from our leaders. And let's remember that it is the North American President of ILCA, Tracy Usher, who has been the most forthcoming on this forum about the issue (including clearing up my recent confusion about baby buggies.)
     
  10. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I'm not trying to turn it into a US vs Europe, but I cannot understand why so many are happy to work on such limited information, how so many fail to want to hold the leadership of their association to account (or even explain why they have done what they have done on behalf of the membership).

    I appreciate that Tracy has given what information he has/can but otherwise the "leadership" has been all but silent - which beggars belief when they are meant to be acting for the membership !! From my own experience at my club (at least one which I will be at next year), after 31 Dec this year the Laser fleet will have no Class Association members (some certainly not renewing because of this farce).
     
  11. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    From what I gather, Laser sailors in Europe as just as much in the dark as we are in North America.
     
  12. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    Hmmm. When I saw all that Maclaren sponsorship I never even thought about who they were. But if Maclaren really are somehow involved in the ownership structure of LaserPerformance (as 49208 suggested) then maybe they are getting something out of their sponsorship of Anna and the Laser Slalom: brand name recognition in the sailing community. I wonder what they might be planning to do with that??? Will we see Maclaren Sailboats competing with Kirby Sailboats somewhere down the road?
     
  13. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    If you are interested, Financial info about LPE http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00922893. Towards the bottom there is a list of one director, so click on that and get to http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/912764531 and you will see he is also a director of Full Moon Holdings http://companycheck.co.uk/company/01898682 together with a Mr Gogol Kafi;so click on this guy's link http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/913635227 and from that director's information screen you can see Mr Gogol Kafi os also a director of several MacLaren companies (as well as Laser Sailboats). Thnk I got all the links in

    Several links to follow through as all these "who knows who and works for who, etc." can weave quite a cryptic link. But the above links are from information submitted to Companies House - the body regulating companies in the UK - who maintain lists of directorships and annual audited financial accounts from companies (mandatory).

    Ian
     
  14. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    This is an uncommon situation. I think at Hunts we only have 1 or 2 who are CA members and that is only because they attend Open Meetings and Class training days. For the grass roots club member it is difficult to justify to them the value that their CA fee is going to give them (I have had this discussion with several people who are fairly high up in the UK CA and whilst they accept there is an issue they are unwilling or unable to do anything about it).
     
  15. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Interestingly, LPE are now rather late in filing their accounts to the regulatory regulatory body. There were actually due to be filed by Sept 2011 and so far have still not been filed ! http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/91121bd26e6136b867c4e6f0b1dd47d4/compdetails (link is to the UK Companies Regulatory body so their info would be up to date). I'm not an accountant but from when I used to hold company directorships there is normally a reason for withholding your accounts. You have 9 months after the companies financial year end (companies chose their own year end) so there is loads of time. Given that you are fined for late submission. We always used to think that late submission meant there was something you did not want to disclose to the world - though who knows.

    Ian
     
  16. felixjsc

    felixjsc New Member

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    GS definitely aren't angels in all of this. I agree with this idea!
     
  17. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Meaning ? And what idea do you agree with ?
     
  18. The Unknown Master

    The Unknown Master Member

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    Maclaren also sponsored the Sunfish Worlds in Curacao last summer. I don't know if demand for Maclaren baby buggies skyrocketed in Curacao following that event or not.
     
  19. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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  20. DaleBrandon16

    DaleBrandon16 New Member

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    Why measure any boats at regattas other than spot checks followed by lifetime bans for those caught with modified boats??

    It seems my suggestion proposed we continue certifying buiilders with regular inspections of their products and we allow anyone to build a boat and it may be raced forever once individually inspected.

    Did you fail to comprehend my post or are you just making up arguments for the sake of argument??

    I believe my system would allow for tighter controls than simply trusting anyone who has a traemark to build our toys.
     

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