Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by gouvernail, Oct 29, 2011.
A simple mind ?
That is pretty funny.
"I was out sailing a Kirby Shroom!"
Feelin a return of the 60s.
Who wants to take a shot at the new logo to replace the laser beam and starburst? I am seeing a return of the orange hulls... man!
Orange hulls never left us...they just got shuffled to the back of the dinghy park and are unloved....perhaps we should start a charity.....
In all seriousness I believe you can specify a gel coat colour, you have to pay (even more of) a premium for it and wait until there is a production run. Personally just go for an after market waterline vinyl wrap job, probable cheaper and you can always peel it off......
This seems apropos.
I dropped off a trailer full of boats at LCYC last night. Wurstfest regatta is just a few hours off. My boat is already rigged and ready to walk down the ramp.
You guys are not solving a damn thing by wasting your lives worrying about the businessmen who are attempting to control pieces of the little plastic boat pie.
I can hear Doris Day singing "Que sera, sera" right now, Fred.
I doubt anyone here is worrying much at all. They are in fact replying to a thread that you, dear sir, started! Should it make you feel any better I promise you that I shall spend no time worrying this weekend and in fact plan to do some sail testing on my F27 trimaran. Looks like we should have about 15 knots of breeze so I hope to be going faster than you on your Laser! If time permits I also hope to dust off the Laser and my drysuit - I am not so lucky as you geographically speaking - and try to shake the cobwebs in advance of Laser frostbiting in a few weeks.
Seriously, I think most everyone knows - now that the vote is done - they are simply along for a ride that ISAF is controlling. But it is fun to watch and speculate. Its a bit like being in a mark boat at the windward mark. We have GS and LPE fighting for first coming in fast on the starboard tack lay line. Getting gassed and fighting for clear air also on starboard is the ICLA boat struggling to make the mark. And then there is Kirby looking to be deep and coming in on the port tack layline... and oh, what is this... the breeze is shifting left and going soft. And here comes the ISAF umpire boats with penalty flags ready to fly. LPE makes an aggressive roll tack over and back while hailing Kirby "not to go in there..." Come on, you have to admit its going to be an interesting mark rounding. And can businessmen and lawyers roll tack?
BTW, cool shroom Merrily and love the color but it sort of says nuclear option (which maybe was intentional on your part??). I was hoping for more of a flower power child kind of theme. Peace and love, peace and love...
Maybe it even works at crowded mark roundings!!
Have a good race Gouv,
The Old Dude
Do you think we could get the Intensity Sails guy to make a run of sails with a 'shroom logo?
Can just in case any of you are wondering where this mushroom stuff started:
And the whole expression is "kept in the dark and fed on...", which seeing as this is a family board I won't finish. No reason to make life tough for Merrily.
This is the best explanation I have seen yet of what is going on. Why didn't anybody explain it in terms we could understand before?
Some month's ago, Merrily in wise inspiration already started a related Thread at TLF about a new class name
As the honored founder and 1st member of the "ILUCA", I remember to this here :
You find me on my "Klingaser", on our to small pool, on Sunday (final 2011 sailing event / Yardstick race, here where I sail) at the starting line, at 14:00 CET+1 1st race start ...
(="Klingon"language -> translation for: "Have fun!" )
To get serious for a while.... does anyone understand the process and timing for submitting the new version of the Fundamental Rule for approval by ISAF? Does it have to go to one of the twice-a-year ISAF meetings?
The annual ISAF meeting is going on this weekend in Puerto Rico but I can't find any mention on the ISAF website of a Laser class fundamental rule change in any of the submissions or on the agendas of relevant subcommittees. In any case, the cutoff for submissions for this meeting was August 1 which was before voting on the rule change was complete. Does this mean that the rule change will have to be submitted to the next ISAF mid-year meeting (which I assume will be in May next year)?
And if so, in the meantime are LPE Lasers really Lasers?
My understanding is that class rule changes can be approved by the ISAF class rules sub-committee at any time through the year. If the committee says no the class has 30 days to comment and the committee will then reconsider. If they say no again, ILCA can refer the change to the ISAF Council. All from section 10.11 of the ISAF regulations.
Section 10.3 is interesting (Section 10 is all about the set up of ISAF classes)...
10.3 There shall be an executed agreement between the ISAF Ltd., the Class/Owners Association and where relevant the Trademark, Trade Name and the Copyright Owner. This agreement shall include at a minimum the following matters:
(a) define, if any, the ownership of the Copyright, Trade Name and Trademark and establish the rights granted and the responsibilities, obligations and restrictions that apply to the use of such rights generally and among the parties to the agreement;
So an agreement exists between ISAF, ILCA, the builders, and maybe BKI that in some way sets out the rights of the various parties. Copyright is mentioned where applicable, but no mention of design rights...
I think Redstar has is right on timing. I am not sure about the last line though.
I am not a lawyer - just deal w agreements all the time. Based on that I would guess that ISAF was a named party to a section(s) of an agreement(s) between the parties. There are mechanisms for that so I doubt ISAF has the whole picture by virtue of the agreements requirement of 10.3. What I really wonder about is how ISAF deals w 10.3 for the EU where I think (??) BKI sold its trademark rights to LPE. So in theory ISAF should have some agreement w LPE. Or mayve there is some umbrella that deals w it all. We likely never know.
Going sailing for a bit and be interested to see what shakes when I get back.
Seems to me that it's a business trying to lower expenses and not pay royalities...
I think it's a sad day for the fleet.
According to the minutes of the October meeting of the North American Laser Class Executive Committee, there was going to be a meeting of the ILCA World Council last weekend (November 5-6) the main focus of which would be to discuss "the next step for the change in the fundamental rule." I wonder if anyone is going to tell the members of the class what was decided at that meeting?
I just got the class membership renewal form in the mail yesterday. Do I make the check out to ILCA-NA or IKCA-NA?
I don't think that is happening. When the leadership announced the membership vote result they said "Therefore we will seek the approval of ISAF within the next few days as required by the ILCA Class Rules, part five article 30(d)."(http://www.laserinternational.org/info/fundamentalrulechangevotingresults). That was back on the 28th Oct so, allowing for "the next few days" and assuming they are telling us the truth, then the ISAF have probably already decided. They refer to the ISAF but make no mention of the World Council. Alternatively, maybe they are being economical with information (again).
This appeared a few days ago on a UK sailing site, taken at a London hotel.
So somebody in the class office posted a message on the class website saying that they are going to go ahead and seek ISAF approval for the fundamental rule change. Meanwhile the World Council (mainly composed of representatives of real class members around the world) says they're going to have a meeting to discuss what the next step should actually be on this rule change. Presumably at least some members of the World Council don't necessarily agree with just going ahead and seeking ISAF approval - perhaps because of the changed circumstances since the original decision by the World Council to seek a rule change, perhaps because of the various irregularities in the voting process. Why else would it be necessary to discuss the "next step"?
At the same time, the other main focus of this World Council meeting was to be a "review of the ICLA office staff structure" (according to the minutes of the NA Excom meeting.)
There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear.
So now I’m really confused. I feel the need to be upset at someone, but my poor little brain isn’t capable of working out who. Can someone, more intelligent than myself, please explain who are the goodies and who are the baddies? Are PSA (the aussies) evil because they are planning world domination? Did they really try and strip Performance Sailing (Rest of the world excluding a tiny bit of Asia) of their rights to sell Lasers, so that the aussies could capture the entire world market? Are Performance Sailing the victimised party who are just defending their business against a bully?
Or perhaps Performance Sailing are the evil protagonists, starving the Rest of the world, excluding a tiny bit of Asia, of their supply of Laser parts, and overcharging for substandard parts and generally alienating their customer base? And now, heavens above, deciding we are not worthy of a new class sail and holding the entire class hostage to the dark age of 3.8 oz of @rse wipe substitute. Are PSA the saviours from down under, riding to the rescue of the class with an ability to provide a steady stream of quality lasers and parts to not only Aus, but also the rest of the world (except that poor tiny wee bit of Asia), and also gain hero status amongst the masses by providing us all with a new shinny looking sail that will take us from the dark ages into at least the tail end of the last century? Should we, the people, get behind them and demand that Performance Sailing are run out of the town like a North African dictator?
I’ve no idea. But I must be mad at someone. Perhaps both Performance Sailing and PSA are beacons of purity and light, and it is me that is evil? Perhaps I should punish myself by spending my entire race this weekend perpetually doing penalty turns? Or perhaps it is the fault of that Knob End who thinks coming in on a port lay line and tacking right under me within the three length zone to the windward mark is a really cool idea. Yeah – it’s clearly all his faults. If you are one of those who enjoy pulling this manoeuvre off, look out this weekend. I’m going to be sailing angry.
Separate names with a comma.