Sailing with new metal clew sleeve today

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by ari_cabarete, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. ari_cabarete

    ari_cabarete New Member

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    Conditions: 14-16 knots with swell.
    I did not like the angle of the pulley that comes on the sleeve so I kept the old pulley that was on the clew. Unfortunately when the pulley that comes with the device is not used, the clew hook does not stay in place risking grommet slipping off.
    It states on the package that the outhaul line must be on the starboard side. I have been sailing with it on port for 4 years, as I like to have the Cunningham on starboard for easy access when rounding upwind marks.
    One must follow instructions because when the outhaul line is on the port side of the boom, when sailing on a starboard tack there is a conflict with foot of the sail. I will try variations tomorrow. (I wish they sold two hooks in every package, one for a port outhaul line system and one for starboard).
    The sleeve really slides on the boom like butter. It was windy today, so I will sail tomorrow earlier in the day for lighter wind, and test it again. I have a feeling the sleeve will become a part of my boom.
     
  2. ari_cabarete

    ari_cabarete New Member

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    2nd day with the metal clew sleeve.
    I got to the beach around 16:00 and it was blowing 20+++. I adjusted my outhaul once, and kept the same trim for upwind and downwind. In other words the sleeve did not have to slide at all.
    But! I did leave the outhaul on the Port side of the clip, even though the instructions state to pass on the Starboard side. Sail looked fine, and the clip did not come undone. It was a good day.
     
  3. sailor327

    sailor327 New Member

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    Yeah if i get one it will probably be at the orange bowl that starts in less than 36 hours, hopefully some people will have it and i can see what they think of it
     
  4. TimClark

    TimClark New Member

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    I have one and will be out tomorrow with it, I brought my velcro strap just in case I hate it, which I probably won't. So I volunteer myself as the official guinea pig of Orange Bowl 2006.
     
  5. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Re leading the outhaul to the Port deck cleat while keeping it to starboard at the new clew sleeve end to avoid hook interference.

    If you rig your purchases using the 'two optional single blocks' tied near the gooseneck (i.e. so the purchase is set up foreward of and separate from the boom cleat) it should be possible to lead first to the starboard side one, back to the block on the line, forward again to the port block and down to the portside turning block on the deck and back to the port cleat. - not sure, but should not be much difference in friction.

    Before switching to a 'Rooster' strap (to get the clew right down to the boom) I used to sail with a Harken hook - and still prefer this for ease of rigging. With the the Harken hook I used pruchases incorporating a single block secured to the boom cleat and another single tied into the line to redirect the outhaul forward again. This setup worked well and permitted all purchases to remain permanently threaded - the only rigging being passing the outhaul thru the block at the gooseneck, down to the deck turning block and back to the cleat (i.e. once the clew was hooked up and the boom placed on the goosneck pin.)

    The hook was reliable in all conditions PROVIDED IT WAS NOT RESTRICTED IN ANY WAY FROM ROTATING AXIALLY AROUND THE BOOM. Found that it was important to run the line to starboard AND when attaching a micro block to the hook it was critical that this be attached in such a fashion that it too could not create resistance to this axial rotation - and lever the hook out of the clew eye. Have seen pictures of the hook used with an outhaul attached separately to the clew (and even some with the hook used to connect the outhaul to the clew but with a separate strap tie-down.) These variations may work - but the hook was not designed for this and I thing it could be tempting fate using it in any applications where it can not rotate to align directly and immediately under the primary load.

    Have not yet changed to the 'two single blocks tied at the goosneck' arrangement because this involves more rigging and more loose lines when transporting. Proponents of the set-up claim it keeps more of the line further inboard and permits a bit more travel. It seems to work quite well on the water though - and should let you choose which side cleat you use even if the actual line has to run to starboard of the hook at the clew end.

    Let me know if it works OK with the new fitting
     
  6. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    I sailed with mine yesterday and it worked great! The wind was pretty light (8 knots or so) and the seas were flat.

    Before I left home it took me about an hour of futzing around until I got the lines adjusted the way I wanted. Most of that time was spent trying to make sure I had the full range of motion. If I went a little too far one way or the other on the cascade it would bottom out before going to full ease or all the way on so I went back and forth several times until I was satisfied I was doing it right. One of the things that threw me off was that at home when there was absolutely no wind and I was trying it out in the yard the line sagged way below the boom and I was worried that I woud hang myself on the water. So I wasted a lot of time trying unsuccessfully to fix it until I decided I should just try it out on the water first. Once on the water it was not a problem at all. But the time spent with the initial setup was a reasonable investment since at the water rigging went quickly -- the sleeve is definitely an improvement over the way I had it before and much faster with just one line to pass through the gooseneck block and down to the deck.

    Once on the water the adjustment worked great even in the light air. When I eased the outhaul the sail went out nice and smooth. This is definitely an improvement and I'm glad I got it.
     
  7. TimClark

    TimClark New Member

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    I learned a lesson from the practice day before Orange Bowl and that was do NOT put a ring-ding on the clevis pin instead of the metal clip thing the slides in there. I used a ring-ding due to the fact that my friend lost the clip and it would push the sail off of the hook, causing the boom to smash onto the boat. So, lesson learned, don't use a ring-ding and now I need to get a new clip for the hook.
     
  8. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Sailed with mine this weekend, and had virtually no issues. I have always run the outhaul on the starboard side since switching to the new rigging, so the change was pretty minimal for me.

    You definitely need to follow the instructions for installing it, including the orientation of the clevis pin head. You want the head on the port side against the sail. If you put it the other direction, the kotter pin with rub against the sail. I wasn't crazy about the kotter pin itself, but I feel this is a better option than a ring-ding as it won't rub on the outhaul line.

    The sail didn't hook/unhook as easily as the Harken hook. It took a little jiggling to both get the sail on in the right position and to take it off, but this will probably get easier as I get used to it.

    I had no real issues while sailing with, though it was exclusively in light air. My outhaul sometimes wouldn't release all the way, but this was not due to the sleeve. I need a tighter shock cord for the inhaul, and I probably need to replace the primary portion of my outhaul line with Spectra. Previously, most of the friction when releasing the outhaul was due to the clew tie-down. The other problems didn't come to light until I replaced the tie-down with the sleeve.

    Overall, I am quite happy with it. I don't know if it makes the boat go any faster, but it makes the rigging cleaner and the outhaul control much more functional.
     
  9. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    From the photos I've seen, the new fitting doesn't keep the clew as close to the boom as I would like - there seems to be a half inch or so gap between the sail and the boom. Can anybody who has used the fitting let me know how big the gap actually is, or if there is any way of adjusting the fitting to get the clew closer to the boom?
     
  10. John Christians

    John Christians New Member

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    Tim Clark,
    I suspect you mounted the hook backward,if the sail came off the hook. The open,
    straight end of the hook MUST be on the port side of the boom. If backward
    [open end of hook on starboard] it almost looks OK, but the sail will come off.

    John Christianson
     
  11. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Tim,

    With the new sleeve is it possible to pin the clew directly to the sleeve without the hook to enable you to get the clew really close to the boom - or are the holes in the sleeve (that take the pin that secures the hook) already too close to the boom to permit the clew cringle to fit under a simple straight-thru pin/Bolt, toggle pin, whatever you choose to call it?

    The current clew strap I am using lets me get the clew right down on the boom (so much so that of the foot flap/round is on or below the boom before vang is applied) - and the strap still slides well without shockcord. The strap is a real fiddle to rig/unrig, however, and nowhere as user friendly in rigging and unrigging in blustery conditions as the old harken hook I used to use.

    Can you get the clew as close to the boom with the sleeve as you can with the strap and still retain smooth adjustment?
     
  12. TimClark

    TimClark New Member

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    No, I set up the hook on the port side, but I didn't set the clevis pin up right. I will try it out again today and see how it goes once I have rigged it right.
     
  13. Bsquared

    Bsquared New Member

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    After seeing a previous homemade version, I rigged up one myself this past weekend. A piece of 2" PVC pipe, some tie-down line, single bullet block, and the "old" APS clew hook. A 2-3" piece of pipe has a slot cut in it, and is pried open and slides over the fittings. Once in place it is tied closed, and then the clew hook and pulley tied on. Works very smoothly, even at only 4:1 purchase (old rig without the deck plates). My cost was only $3 (for a 3 foot section of pipe, and I've been giving away 3" pieces of that) since I already had the clew hook and a spare block.

    Not class legal, but any reason why it shouldn't be? We've already had three big changes in the clew arrangement in the last 3 years or less (the original new rig, the velcro hook, and now the sleeve). Serves the exact same function as the metal sleeve. Not a safety issue any more than the standard tie-down arrangement.

    I also think it's only a matter of time before before there's a cheek block on the end of the boom :)
     
  14. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Bsquared

    Similar experience - made mine by cutting a sleeve shaped section from one of those plastic chamois (tube) containers.

    The plastic is probably only a millimetre or so thick and the 'sleeve' only around 15-20 millimetres at the base. (cut this with ordinary scissors).

    Then punched 6 small slots (in pairs) at the bottom and at each side near the top with a screwdriver and hammer so thin spectra tie down line could be threaded thru them just to stop this line slipping off the plastic 'sleeve'. Tied the hook with the thin spectra line as normal (but the plastic sleeve held in place/captive on the line) and the whole thing slid really well.

    It cost only my time but would only be class legal if you could win the argument that the original chamious 'tube' container it was cut from met the definition of a 'simple tube' which can be legally added to the tie down.

    Have moved on to the velcro strap which works fine but is a real fiddle to rig/unrig compared to using a harken hook. Have noticed that with the strap I can get the clew closer to the boom and keep it sliding freely than I could with the old style harken hook - but otherwise it is still only the width of the stiff flat strap that acts like the sleeve and prevents initial binding when uou adjust the outhaul.

    The 'sleeves', and the strap for that matter, seem to work simply because they are stiff enough to reduce the initial (static) binding friction which you get with a sideways pull on simple rope tie downs.

    Have ordered one of the new toys to give it a try - but the pictures so far suggest It may not let you rig as close to the boom as the strap. This is why I was wondering if it was possible to simply pin the clew to the sleeve (without the hook) to get it really close to the boom. - If the hook was eliminated and the pin that currently holds the hook was rigged directly thru the clew eye it could surely be made 'quick' release and be tied at one end with a fine line to something so you don't loose the pin if you drop it.

    Has anybody tried to run the pin directly thru the clew with the new sleeve??
     
  15. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I'll bet it doesn't fit. I had to buy thinner bungy to tie to the pin in order to have an outhaul return. Yes, I needed it in light air when I tried the prototype. But I have my boom set up with the new metal outhaul thingy, and if I remember I'll check on what you are asking and find out for sure. Also, the clevis pin would be a bear to rig and unrig in any kind of air. It certainly wouldn't be any kind of quick release system.
     
  16. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    It's probably moot anyway, but a fastpin/quickpin would be the answer...
    http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d78000/e75621.asp

    With it in place though, I don't think there would be room for the turning block on the pin - you would have to tie that to the clew of the sail, as well as the shockcord. I"m sure J.C. considered all options when doing the prototyping....
     
  17. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    The clevis pin is, well, the size of a pin, or in reality about the diameter of two sewing pins. I haven't checked but I doubt that there is a quick release pin that small, but if there is, I want one.
     
  18. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    We are not talking about the cotter pin or ring ding (or whatever is used at the end of the clevis pin) We are talking about the actual pin that goes thru both sides of the sleeve. That is commonly called a clevis pin. If you look at the link I provided above, you'll see the various pins and there names
     
  19. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh yeah, my bad.
     
  20. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Ok, my hands are frozen now from going out to the garage and playing with the metal clew sleeve. I took the pin off and tried to put the clew of the sail on it. There is no way. There's only about 1/4 inch of clearance. Then I put it back together and put the clew on the hook. The sail is sitting on the sleeve and it's as close to the boom as it is possible get it. I tried to compress it to get it closer and it gets no closer. So I think that the picture the poster saw must have been deceptive. Tying the sail to the boom won't get it any closer than this new metal sleeve.
     

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