Sailing with new metal clew sleeve today

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by ari_cabarete, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Thanks for the experiments and advice.

    Finally sailed with the new toy today - and it slides very well. The sail is quite close to the boom and seems secure.

    Was surprised though, because the only way I could rig it was with the sleeve slightly off centre and the clew of the sail outside the port-side flange for the cotter pin. Consequently the whole sleeve sits a few degrees off vertical and the split-pin thru the cotter pin on starboard gest too close for comfort to the outhaul line rinning forward on the starboard side. The latter did not snag on my first day out but looks like it might sometime.

    Went back to check out the photos posted recently but these all taken from starboard and do not show this clearly - but the sleeve looks more 'vertical' than mine.

    Should the clew of the sail be to port - outside the the port-side flange??
    The clew cringle in the sail on mine won't let the clew sit centred between port and starboard sleeve flanges.

    Comments from users appreciated.
     
  2. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Postscript,

    Sailing World has an article and photo showing the new sleeve rigged -and the sail is clearly outside the portside flange. SW warn that some sails may catch on the flange -so double check when rigging by rotating the hook maximally aft.
     
  3. John Christians

    John Christians New Member

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    Tim,
    There is not enough room to pin the clew directly to the sleeve. Also, I heard
    that Jean- Luc Michon, the ILCA chief measurer is going to rule that the fitting must be used as supplied to maintain our one design integrity.

    JC
     
  4. Laster

    Laster New Member

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    Five of us in Aberdeen in Scotland have bought these new devices and none of us can make them work as well as you describe. Are laser spars the same in the UK as the USA?

    The sleeve seems to "seize". It is easy enough to pull the clew out, but when letting the clew off, the sleeve seems to grip the boom and sit still unless you give the sail a tug. I have tried sliding it up and down the boome with the clew of the sail attached but the clew outhaul slack to make sure its not friction in the rope that is the problem. It seems to slide easily enough if the clew is rotated slightly, but if clew is sitting vertically, as you would imagine would be its natural postion, the slide then grips the boom.

    Any advice from across the waters?
     
  5. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    mclube
     
  6. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    Is it possible that the sleeve is getting stuck on the rivet for the boom block fairlead (at the aft end of the boom)? ie Is the sleeve pulled as far aft as it can physically go (and then jamming)? When I first rigged mine, I had too much play in the lines and got mine jammed onto the rivet when I pulled on too much outhaul and it wouldn't slide forward again without some persuading. But once I got it unstuck it moved fine until I pulled it on too far again. . . I readjusted my lines so I can't "bottom out" like that and I haven't had a problem since.

    If it's catching anywhere else then I'm at a loss -- mine has been working great in light air as well as heavy air. I wouldn't think there is a significant difference between UK and US spars unless the black anodizing is somehow "grippier" than the clear/silver anodizing they use over here. But if that were the case I think people would have had problems with the straps and lines used before. . .



     
  7. John Christians

    John Christians New Member

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    Laster in UK,
    The boom diameter can be checked against USA booms by measuring the
    circumference. With an accurate, flexible tape that is pulled tight, the
    circumference should measure exactly 160 mm.
    In lighter winds there is no retracting force in the sail, so a little push on the
    sail is necessary. Some in the USA attach the usual bungee inhaul between
    the boom cleat and the clew. In USA, Intensity Sails sells such a prefitted
    bungee with a hook on it that attaches to the the new boom sleeve to
    retract the sail in lighter winds. So far, I push on the sail to retract it. In
    stronger winds a sufficiant retracting force sets up in the sail.

    John Christianson
     
  8. leftfield

    leftfield New Member

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    I'm having similar problems with my clew sleeve - at least its performance doesn't quite seem to match a lot of the glowing reports on here. It tends to drag on the leading edge of the sleeve (especially with a loaded leech) rather than maintaining contact with the boom over its whole length, which seems to be what it was designed to do.

    I had hoped to do away with the shockcord inhaul, but it looks like I am going to have to go back to it and hopefully that will help it release. I'm thinking that running it from the outhaul cleat, around the clevis pin of the boom sleeve and back to the outhaul cleat will work best. Going from the cleat to the clevis pin then tying off on the outhaul line itself (close to the boom) apparently works even better but that doesn't seem to be within the rules. Any opinions?

    The sleeve is also leaving black marks on the boom, which is a worrying sign.
     
  9. Laster

    Laster New Member

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    Measured the circumference of my "Scottish" boom. It is exactly 160mm.

    Made sure it was rigged exactly as instructions.

    Still jammed.

    Used WD 40 ("McLube") and it all worked a treat.

    Have added elastic inhaul, but probably not essential.

    Many thanks for all your help and advice.

    I now think the metal clew sleeve is fantastic.

    Laster
     
  10. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    i used it today in 15+, and it worked like butter! no complaints, had to wiggle it a bit to get it to sit right in the hook ,but its all good
     
  11. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I used mine for the first time this weekend. I have not sailed since October and it was blowing 15-20. So, went out to get back some feel for the boat tacking and when I went for my first jibe the boom hit my head and then it fell off! So there I was boom on the deck, sail flapping. I had to capsize the boat to get the sail hooked back up on the boom. Sailed the rest of the day without incident. I have no idea what happened, but when I was rerigging I noticed my outhaul had come completely loose. I can only guess I had not attached the clew correctly to start. Anyway, I was happy w/it when the day was done.
     
  12. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    I just wanted to add to this thread.

    I've been using the new sleeve, rigged as shown in the diagram for a few outings now. I was having real trouble because the system always stuck when I released the outhaul; it seemed there was too much friction in the system. I thought I was going to need to put a bungie inhaul back on.

    But last night, I sprayed the end of the boom and the outhaul line at the outhaul attachment point with "McLube" following the directions on the can. I was liberal with it and added a couple coats. HUGE DIFFERENCE! Every ease of the outhaul caused an immediate difference in sailtrim, and if I blew the outhaul completely, the sail quickly pulled it all the way out the stop knot, even at the shown 8-1 cascading advantage.

    I conclude that if you use the new sleeve, YOU NEED A CAN of MCLUBE to go with it.
     
  13. madyottie

    madyottie Apprentice

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    or if you're in the UK, pop into the range superstore, and buy a can of GT85 for £2, as opposed to £8.95 for Mclube, or £7.95 for Prolube!
     
  14. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    Here's an update on the inhaul "attachment" from the US Trials:

    Notice #1
    From the Regatta Measurer to all Competitors

    During equipment spot checks and observations a number of competitors were seen to be in violation of Laser Class Rule 2(f)vi.
    “A shock cord may be attached between the outhaul cleat and the clew of the sail, the clew tie down, the optional block at the clew, or the quick release system for the use as an inhaul.”

    The word “attached” means attached in such a manner that the shock cord neither moves nor is adjustable. The shock cord running through the cleat is not “attached”.

    All competitors are reminded to check their equipment for compliance to this rule.




    Regatta Measurer 6 October 2007 2:30pm
     
  15. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    so how did everyone have it?
     
  16. Laser of the Corn

    Laser of the Corn Member

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    My best guess Ross is something i've seen in the past and wondering if legal.

    They run the shock cord from the clew/clew strap to the outhaul cleat where it is cleated. If it's simply put through the cleat it would therefore be adjustable. It was my impression it had to run from the clew to the outhaul cleat and back?

    D
     
  17. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Al, thanks for this information. It is an important information.
    But, there is something that makes me wonder:

    Last year, Mr. Dawson-Edwards posted a really interesting report of his way to rig the Laser at the Masters Worlds 2006 at Fortaleza/BRA. This is to find here (Really many thanks to Mr Dawson-Edwards for this report):

    http://www.jdemarine.com/laser__rigging.htm

    At the 2nd and 3rd photo there, you see that way how the shockcord is cleated that now seems to be not legal, am I right?

    It makes me wonder, that this way to cleat the shockcord at the Masters Worlds 2006 at Fortaleza/BRA seemed to have passed the measurement with success. Am I right?
    So, my question now is:
    Who is right: the measurers of the Masters Worlds 2006 at Fortaleza/BRA or the measurers from the actual US Trials 2007?

    However, as long as there is not a competent official answer to this question, I knot the shockcord at the bridge of the old outhaul-camcleat. If it is a need, I loose or tighten the shockcord there, if sailing-manoevers do allow me that.

    Ciao
    LooserLu
     
  18. almineev

    almineev New Member

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    Raced 22 races in last two weekends in 15-30 knot winds and had the same problem. Everytime it gusts 20+ with rain the clew starts seizing to the point it was seized dead this Saturday. Lubing a bit helped, but it still did not move freely in 25+. Will lube more and see how it goes. Might opt off the thing if the problem remains...
     
  19. suthera

    suthera Member

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    My experimentation with the sleeve has ended with me chucking the thing in the bin. It kept jamming at key moments and while lube has helped it has not removed the problem completely.

    I’ve gone back to the rooster Velcro strap which works perfectly. Sure – it might take an extra 5 seconds to unrig the sail on the beach, but this is time well spent when I know I can trim my sail correctly.
     
  20. almineev

    almineev New Member

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    Another little issue with the sleeve is that it actually limits the amount of outhaul tension one can put on the sail since it hits harware holding the block at the end of the boom. Not an issue in winds below survival, but in 30 knots on an older sail these extra 1.5 inches could help...
     

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