Prevent turtling with a sail float sleeve

Discussion in 'Capri/Catalina 14 Talk' started by liketoboat, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. JGM

    JGM Member

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    Hey Ed,
    Got your message and responded. Thanks!

    BTW, just so everyone knows, after Ed gets his bracket, I'll be down to four left. The remaining are what you might call cosmetically challenged in that they have some drill holes which came in the aluminum from back when it was intended for a sliding door track. These holes do nothing to impair the performance of the brackets and I've marked them with red pen so there's no confusion.

    Jim
     
  2. chemprof

    chemprof Member

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    Hey Jim -- If they have holes in them, raise the price, and label them "Ultra-Light"; sort of like this guy I know (nameless here) who drills holes in his motorcycle engine's connecting rods to make it go faster. BTW, I'll take the unholy one unless someone beats me to it. -- Ed

     
  3. JGM

    JGM Member

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    Sorry Buddy, it's too late. But technically speaking, yours is a weird hybrid - it has an extra hole and doesn't have an extra hole at the same time. You'll see what I mean when it arrives.

    Regardless, I absolutely guarantee no nearby boaters (within about two feet of the Bob) will see the hole that is not a hole. ;)

    Jim
     
  4. MajorH

    MajorH Member

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    > In sort of a hijack of this thread, three questions regarding the baby bob:
    > 1. Anyone who has one of these ever turtled their C14.2?

    I agree with the comment of a previous poster, I doubt that a Baby Bob equipped C14.2 can turtle, even in gusty wind. I was knocked over in a heartbeat by a "dust devil" on a West Texas lake last summer. The boat went over and then spun completely around while laying on its side. I don't think the Baby Bob ever went under the surface and the boat floated so high on it side that it didn't take on a bit of water. I was able to release the main as I dropped overboard but not the jib. Was then easy to right the boat and to get my portly frame back in via a folding ladder that I had installed aft.

    > 2. Do you remove the baby bob when trailering or can it take 60 mph winds?

    The Bob itself is very solid. I don't remove it when trailering even though my home made mast connection is a bit crude and wobbly. I have made several 250 mile trips at 60 plus MPH.
     
  5. prig0026

    prig0026 Member

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    Old thread, but since the original subject applies I thought I would tack on instead of creating a new one...

    Has anyone actually had experience with the float sleeve from Catalina? Somewhere it was mentioned that it has 12lbs of buoyancy vs 33 for the baby bob. Where did this information come from? Catalina just quoted me $180 for the float sleeve which seems crazy, but a Baby Bob is no steal at $115 either. I guess I would prefer the float sleeve just because its ready to use out of the box, and it probably looks better, but I want to make sure it actually works if I'm going to drop that kind of money on it.
     
  6. JGM

    JGM Member

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    I haven't used the float sleeve but there are specs for it in my C-14 manual. You can deduce the buoyancy from the size of the foam and then calculate the displacement. I figured it was about 10 pounds but 12 is in the ballpark. Hobie says the Bob gives 32 lbs of lift and although I haven't tested it, that seems about right.

    As to whether the sleeve provides enough buoyancy, I don't think anyone has ever provided first-hand testimony. Pretty much everyone here has gone with the Baby Bob or some other mast-topping floatation device (or nothing at all). If you get the sleeve, maybe you'd be willing to test it for us by purposely pulling the boat over in the shallows, and then try to turtle it by pressing hard against the bottom of the hull to simulate wind pressure. When I did that with the Baby Bob, it refused to let the mast submerge.

    On a side note, I can't help but wonder if there are any other mono-hull daysailers out there which have something as peculiar as a flotation sleeve designed for them to prevent turtling. Maybe I'm just not with it, but I can't remember seeing anything like it for any other boat. Anyone?

    Jim
     
  7. RC14A

    RC14A Member

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    Hey Jim , good to see words backed up with experience and testing .

    A question - were the sails hoisted and cleated during your test ? I'm wondering as it seems to be a common denominator in most turtling situations .

    Rob
     
  8. JGM

    JGM Member

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    It's a really good question. I didn't have the sails up during the test because I never assumed they played a role in turtling once the boat is capsized. The wind blows the boat over and the sails end up in the lee of the hull and out of the wind.

    BUT!

    It's possible the sails act similarly to the bow plane on a submarine. As the wind presses against the bottom of the hull, attempting to roll the boat upside down, the sails catch the water and angle the mast downward, speeding up turtling. If that's the case, the more mast flotation the better to keep the sails from snagging the water in the first place. And even if the flotation sleeve is sufficient to keep the mast afloat in moderate winds, it might not in higher winds where the sails are also pulling the mast under water. Or maybe that's the beauty of the sleeve in that it prevents the sail head from slipping beneath the surface, avoiding the "down-plane" effect. :confused:

    Obviously it would be great if we could get a Bob outfitted mast and a sleeve outfitted sail and test them together with and without the sails hoisted.

    Jim
     
  9. prig0026

    prig0026 Member

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    I've come across a few other options:

    This one is a self inflating device, very discreet, and probably the one I would choose, except I can't seem to find anyone that sells it in the U.S.
    http://www.sailboats.co.uk/Catalogu...rbag_Mast_Float_20L_Volume~p_KSK20~c4875.html

    This one looks pretty good actually, and the right price.
    http://www.apsltd.com/c-4686-buoyancybags.aspx

    http://www.tridentuk.com/sailing/product-Crewsaver_Mast_Float_9Ltr-1_CS10085.html

    Seems as though the UK is more concerned about turtling than we are. Wonder why no one tries to sell these products here.

    I'm undecided with which route to go. I think I'm going to try something other than the baby bob, the $60 option at www.apsltd.com looks appealing.
     
  10. JGM

    JGM Member

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    I like it! The same functionality as the sleeve for 1/3 the cost. I would've opted for this one, too, had I known it was out there. Get it and let us know how it works!!!

    Thanks!
    Jim
     
  11. prig0026

    prig0026 Member

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    Just ordered the buoyancy bag mast float from APS, I'll report out on how it works once I get it on the boat. Just couldn't bring myself to drop the $180 on the Catalina float panel. This has to be better than nothing as long as it stays inflated and in position at the top of the mast.
     
  12. sailorlem

    sailorlem Member

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    Mast Floats

    I have been using plastic gallon milk jugs for years. Not particularly "cool" but very effective. Also cheap, very light weight, easy and quick to install/remove (just run up mast with sail), adjustable (1, 2, or 3). Could probably paint or add decal.
     
  13. RC14A

    RC14A Member

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    I have seen pool noodles , antifreeze jugs and old life jackets hung at the top of masts , whatever floats your boat , or should I say - the mast :D

    Rob
     
  14. unclesmitty

    unclesmitty New Member

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    My mast is completely foam filled. Haven't tested it yet but will post on it when I do.
     
  15. prig0026

    prig0026 Member

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    Following up on the inflatable mast float I mentioned purchasing in a previous post... I haven't tipped the boat yet so I can't say how well it actually performs, but can comment on a couple of things:

    - Once it is up, it looks ok and isn't all that intrusive. (helps that my sails are blue, yellow, and white)

    - Getting it up the mast can be sorta difficult sometimes. It often gets caught on the spreaders and requires a couple tries to get it past them

    - It is good quality, and it does LOOK like it would work just fine.

    So far I'm convinced its a good lower cost alternative to a baby bob.
     
  16. rmark

    rmark New Member

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    I went with the decorative '5 qt yellow plastic pennzoil jug' tied to an eyebolt that replaces the axle bolt at the top of the mast. And it worked quite nicely at 2:00 this afternnon when I accidentially jibed the boat and over we went.
     

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