Prevent turtling with a sail float sleeve

Discussion in 'Capri/Catalina 14 Talk' started by liketoboat, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. liketoboat

    liketoboat New Member

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    I recently started sailing and decided to move up in size what what I had to a Capri 14.2. After searching for some time I found #1945 and bought it. I read many of the past threads that concerned turtling . I saw on Ebay a sail sleeve that contains floatation material that slips over the top of the mainsail . The person selling it states it comes from Catalina. Any viewers ever try that product in lieu of the Hobie Bob? Looks like a much sleeker solution than a H- Bob.
     
  2. jcorliss78

    jcorliss78 New Member

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    Ask the seller for dimensions

    If you're referring to the auction I think you are, that item is for a Catalina 16.5. You might want to email the seller for dimensions before you bid, as I do not know if the sail head is the same shape.

    Catalina designed the sleeve to fit on either side of the mainsail and it looks like a viable solution if you have used your masthead for something else, such as a flag or more technical wind direction indicator model. I've not used it, but it does indeed look like a sleek design. Note that if you trailer your boat like I do, you will probably have to unsleeve and resleeve the float each launch, vs. perm attachment with the baby bob.
     
  3. JGM

    JGM Member

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    There are a couple differences between the Hobie Baby Bob and the foam flotation sleeve sold by Catalina. The sleeve only provides about 12 pounds of buoyancy while the bob gives you around 33. As far as I know, 12 is adequate but there is no data either way from what I can see. I have the Bob and testing with the boat pulled over on it's side has shown it very effective in preventing turtling.
    As to which one impacts sailing the most, it's hard to say but my guess would be the Bob. Although it's aerodynamically designed to reduce drag, it is sitting up there in the open unlike the sail sleeve.

    Hope this is helpful,
    Jim
     
  4. chemprof

    chemprof Member

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    In sort of a hijack of this thread, three questions regarding the baby bob:

    1. Anyone who has one of these ever turtled their C14.2?

    2. Do you remove the baby bob when trailering or can it take 60 mph winds?

    3. Anyone give their baby bob a different decal?
     
  5. JGM

    JGM Member

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    I really don't think you can turtle a Bob equipped C-14. After installing ours, I purposefully pulled the boat over on it's side in the shallows at our marina. When it goes over like this, most of the hull is sticking out of the water and in the case of high-wind capsizing, it's the wind pressing against the bottom of the hull pushing the boat upside down which causes it to turtle.

    To simulate the force of the wind, we pressed against the bottom of the hull, pushing the boat through the shallows along the beach. During this test the Bob refused to let the mast sink. Even during our hardest effort, we could only momentarily get the Bob to submerge, and then it would bob right back up again. ;)

    I guess it depends on how well it's attached to the top of your mast. I leave ours on during trailering without any problems whatsoever.

    On ours, the Hobie logo is baked into the Bob's plastic but there is no reason someone couldn't get creative and cover the logo with another decal or even paint over it.

    Jim
     
  6. chemprof

    chemprof Member

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    Thanks Jim!

    Sounds like we'll have a baby bob under or maybe on our Christmas tree this year!

    I think I remember some picts of how you attached yours here. I recall it looking very nice and also strong.

    On another forum, I saw that someone had covered the Hobie with a decal of a shark. I like the idea of painting a nice nested C14 on bob.
     
  7. JGM

    JGM Member

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    Hey Chemprof,
    Here's the link to my turtling post way back when: Baby Bob to the Rescue!

    If you need a bracket, I still have a few left. I've also been thinking of another way to mount the Bob which makes an intermediate bracket unnecessary. Basically you cut four slots in the top of the mast using a hack saw. These slots are wide enough and positioned exactly so the two Bob flanges can slip down into the mast on either side of the pulley. Then, when the Bob is where you want it, drill two holes perpendicular to the flanges so pins can be inserted to hold the Bob in position.
    It's a better solution but cutting the slots and drilling the holes can be tricky. Maybe next spring I'll work up a template people can use to layout the process.

    Hope this helps,
    Jim
     
  8. chemprof

    chemprof Member

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    Thank you Jim. Your post was the one I was remembering. I am also trying to think of other ways to mount the baby bob.

    I saw in a Hobie forum where a guy mounted his mama bob to a Hobie 18, which doesn't have the mast top that either bob was designed for. I'll attach some pictures he posted. Here's the url for all of his pictures:
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=34617

    -- Ed
     

    Attached Files:

  9. RC14A

    RC14A Member

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    While these are good solutions to prevention of Turtling , I wonder how many have sealed the bottom of the mast ?

    Rob

    C14.2 #1174
     
  10. paulsheller

    paulsheller Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually the question is how many have sealed the bottom of the mast and actually tested it. I would love to hear from someone who has.
     
  11. RC14A

    RC14A Member

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    I remember reading a post where someone had filled their mast completely with foam and it cured his turtle problem . I'm thinking sealing the bottom would help tremendously .
     
  12. JGM

    JGM Member

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    Guys and Gals,
    When the boat capsizes, the bottom of the mast is out of the water by at least a foot or so. Assuming you haven't drilled any more holes in the mast other than the ones put in for the shroud and forestay tangs, and the foam plug in the top of the mast is intact, the mast shouldn't fill with water unless the wind pushes the boat completely upside down.

    Of course, by then the question is moot. ;)

    Jim
     
  13. My-Ria

    My-Ria New Member

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    Baby Bob Mounted to the mast head halyard pulley bolt

    Jim,

    Your bracket works real well when it is held in place with two strips of aluminum (stock available at Lowes) held in place inside the mast vertically attached to the mast head halyard pulley bolt.

    I use a single bolt with a metal/plastic friction nut to attach the Baby Bob & your bracket to the aluminum strips attached to the halyard pulley bolt.

    I drilled throught the Baby Bob bracket and your aluminum bracket to attach the Baby Bob to the aluminum strips.

    I can now remove the Baby very easily/quickely with that single removeable secured bolt/nut whenever trailoring or storing the boat when space is limited.

    Rick
     
  14. JGM

    JGM Member

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    Rick,
    What a great idea!!! Why didn't I think of that? It takes all the guesswork out of drilling the mast. But you have to post a picture if you can.

    Jim
     
  15. paulsheller

    paulsheller Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, please post a picture. I'm not sure I understand the setup.

    The bracket is designed to sit inside the top of the mast. I assume your straps put it above the mast? If so, what keeps it from wiggling around?
     
  16. JGM

    JGM Member

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    Paul,
    The way I understand it, the bracket fits as it was supposed to with half inside the mast. What Rick has done is run a couple thin aluminum straps up the outside of the bracket, but inside the mast connected to the main halyard pulley bolt. As you can see in the picture of my mast top, there is enough room for these straps to slip in there.

    [​IMG]

    Then I guess the straps are cut off at the top of my bracket and a hole is drilled through the bracket and Baby Bob flanges for a bolt. If you have a snug fit on the bolt holes, there shouldn't be any slop whatsoever and the hole through the bracket/Baby Bob flanges is much easier to drill than the one through the mast. I like it! :)

    Jim
     
  17. paulsheller

    paulsheller Administrator Staff Member

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    Got it. Understood! As you said, Jim, a picture was worth a thousand words. Thanks for posting.
     
  18. My-Ria

    My-Ria New Member

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    Baby Bob Secured with Aluminum Straps

    Jim,

    You're right on target with the description of what worked for me. My boat is in storage and I can not get a picture, but your explanation with your picture says it all!

    You correctly identified the last step as drilling the hole in your bracket attached to the Baby Bob bracket to ensure a tight fit. If I chose to sail without the Baby Bob the straps do not interfere with the halyard pulley.

    What really makes everything work is your bracket that fits so well at the mast head.

    Catalina should really consider contacting you about securing your design or arrange to have you provide the brackets as a dealer installed option!

    Rick
     
  19. chemprof

    chemprof Member

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    Thanks for the offer on the bracket Jim. I'll PM you. -- Ed

     
  20. JGM

    JGM Member

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    Hey Rick,
    Thanks for the very kind words. Unfortunately I suspect Catalina prefers such discussions would disappear. The last thing they want is a general understanding that one or two of their designs might be easy to capsize or easy to turtle. I believe the most they'll ever do is quietly offer the flotation sleeve which, as far as we know, is plenty.

    Catalina isn't anything like Hobie which seems to have the mindset that it's OK for their sailboats to be a little unpredictable. When you hear about someone stuffing a Hobie Cat into a wave and pitch-poling everyone overboard, it's not scary, it's "Awesome Dude!" ;)

    Anyway, thanks again!
    Jim
     

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