installing racing cleats on boom

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by Carey Seven, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. Carey Seven

    Carey Seven New Member

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    I was wondering if anyone has any insight into the install of camcleats for outhauls on the Sunfish boom?
    I want to install one for outhaul and one for boom vang or dawnhaul. need to know if I should use rivets or screws and how to orient the cleat.
    Thank you.
     
  2. Charles Howard

    Charles Howard Member

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  3. Eddie_E

    Eddie_E Member

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    I used 3/16 aluminium pop rivets. 3/16 stainless are the strongest, but they can be hard to find and they can only be removed with a cobalt drill bit. The aluminium has been fine for me.
     
  4. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Carey:
    To prevent confusion, the vang doesn't need a new cleat. We use the halyard for that and it is tied to the cleat on the deck.
    The 'downhaul' for the luff of the sail (usually referred to as Cunningham) is tied to a cleat on the boom that is not standard on older boats.
    And yes, use the photos on the Starboard Passage site (see above) for clarification.


    See also
    http://www.laserperformance.global/product_images/pdf/Sunfish Rigging Guide.pdf
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  5. wjejr

    wjejr Member

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    Hi Carey Seven,

    I use cam cleats for adjusting the two outhauls. I think of the top boom as more of a luff tension device and will refer to it that way here.

    I stressed out about location for weeks, I hate drilling holes, and finally decided on:

    1. The bottom outhaul cam cleat in front of the forward boom block and mounted at a three o'clock if you look at the end of the boom from behind. The rationale being that you would release the outhaul going into/around the weather mark and that in most cases you would be rounding on starboard tack. The three o'clock position allows you to do that. You also usually start on starboard, so it helps there as well.

    2. I top outhaul cam cleat I mounted forward to the bottom cleat. I think about 8 inches. This allows the luff tension to be adjusted on either tack. I don't know that it makes all the much difference unless you are racing, but I tighten it up in flat water and a breeze.

    I used screws as I had some handy, but I am sure rivets would work as well. These cleats don't take much of a load, and what load there is is a shear load. You will also be using multiple purchases so the load is reduced even further. In my opinion I would not worry about the strength part of the equation.

    I will take a picture tomorrow and post it here.

    As it happens I will be transferring the cleats to a new boom in the next couple of weeks as the old ones are corroded to the point that one of them now has a hole in it.

    Good luck!
     
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  6. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    My ex-racer Sunfish spars had cleats, but since the spars were corroded, I sold them with my other "seasoned parts" to the buyer of my Porpoise II.

    Those cleats weren't more than bent pieces of aluminum, making them a one-piece cam cleat. Is that the "allowed" design, or are others attaching more substantial cam cleats?

    Pictures?
     

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  7. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I don't think I have ever seen camcleats used on Sunfish booms. Everyone uses clamcleats as they are compact and have no moving parts to worry about.
     
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  8. wjejr

    wjejr Member

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    On this post I meant to say "clam cleats" not "cam cleats". Sorry for any confusion.
     
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  9. tag

    tag my2fish

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  10. wjejr

    wjejr Member

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    Hi Carey Seven,

    I set up the Sunfish today and took some pictures that you might find interesting.

    Picture 1: Shows the arrangement of the outhaul clam cleat, got it right this time, at the 3 o'clock position and the cunningham cleat at the 6 0'clock position.
    Picture 2: This is the arrangement I used at the tack to pull the cunningham. The line is tied around the eye bolt on the upper boom. I am sure people tie it through the eye bolt, but I did not. My thought was that the line would get pinched. I used a harken micro block tied on with spectra. Both are overkill, but I had these things lying around, and so why not? The tack is tied to the eye bolts which is hat the racing community apparently does. I don't race the boat, but I didn't like the S-hook. You will also see a piece of red wool that I used for a telltale. I have a different tell tale now, but I never took this one off. For it too work better it, it should be taped to the bottom. As it is, it gets tangled just like you see.
    Picture 3: The outhaul goes over the gooseneck and back. The cunningham goes over the top. I have seen pictures of people putting it through, but this works for me and there is no chance of it getting pinched. What passes for a boomvang is the red line going down to the deck.
    Picture 4: These are the cleats from the starboard side of the boat. You can see the trucker's hitch loop and the handle hanging through it. You might also note that these clam cleats have rollers. Spectra/dyneema is slippery stuff and you probably don't need them, but I had never used them before, so I splurged to see how they work.
    Picture 5: The outhaul runs along the boom, and I led it through the aft mainsheet carrier, or whatever people call it. I tried running through the forward one as well, but the angle didn't work well. Regardless, the outhaul line never sags all that much, so you could probably do without it, but on the other hand the mainsheet does, so it was an easy call to go ahead with this.
    Picture 6: The shows the arrangement at the clue. I tied it to the boom cap and then ran it through the clue back to the outhaul cap and then towards the cleat. There are purchases involved in that, but I did not seem to take a picture of that. Let me know if you want/need it.
    Picture 7: This is what I stressed out about when mounting the cleats. In my opinion you want the cleats close to the shower rings when the tension is off. That way there is no interference to the sail when you add tension. I also did not want the lines to get wrapped up in the mainsheet. You can see the measurements I used.
    Picture 8: Just shows how the lines go over or around the gooseneck. You can also see how the purchases are created by using a truckers hitch and a thimble

    Hope that helps you.
     

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  11. wjejr

    wjejr Member

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    Hi Carey Seven,

    Picture 7: This is what I stressed out about when mounting the cleats. In my opinion you want the cleats close to the shower rings when the tension is off. That way there is no interference to the sail when you add tension. I also did not want the lines to get wrapped up in the mainsheet. You can see the measurements I used.

    NOTE: The measurement stick is to the end of the spar and not the black end cap. People usually measure things this way, but I just wanted to be clear.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2017
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  12. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    I call it the aft mainsheet duct-tape. :oops:

    This was very well done and, even as a recreational sailor, I plan to add all of this to my Sunfish! (Adding the word ultimate to this reply so I can find it here when I've got some clam cleats located). At Google, you can also find them under "jam cleats"—as below.

    What I was referring to previously—as a one-piece S/S jam cleat:
    [​IMG]
    At West Marine, they're now $17—double what I paid for one a few years ago. :eek:

    I'd like to add a proper vang block and sheet, leading the line through the Sunfish deck cleat to a cam cleat near the cockpit. (To join the halyard clam cleat that is already in place).
     
  13. Doug Warren

    Doug Warren Member

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    The block installed at the tack of the sail for the cunningham is not legal for racing.
     
  14. Dickhogg

    Dickhogg New Member

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    Busted! :oops:
     
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  15. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    See the above race caveat in paragraph 2.

    .
     
  16. Eddie_E

    Eddie_E Member

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    I used some plastic mini clam cleats I bought at West marine for $7.00. They worked well except for having to trim the flange on one of the pop-rivets a little. I believe they were Ronstan Fairlead V mini cleats.
     
  17. Sailflow

    Sailflow Member

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    Carey - do you have a racing sail? The standard sails I would not bother with cleats. The racing sails are fuller cut and the cleats allow for better shaping of the sail for different sailing conditions.
     
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  18. wjejr

    wjejr Member

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    The sail I show in the pictures is from Intensity, which is described as a having a racing cut. I don't have another sail, so without measuring it I'm just taking their word.

    One thing I really like about the Sunfish is how fast it sets up, and I originally got interested in the adjustable controls as a way to save time. Before installing them I had to tie the clews every time I went sailing which takes a couple of minutes, and sometimes I would forget, with not so pretty results. :) Now the lines are always tied on, and I just release the lines and don't worry about stretching the foot and luff when the sail is stored.
     
  19. wjejr

    wjejr Member

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    Hi Doug,

    Yes you are right on about that, and thanks for pointing it out. I should have made mention. The rest of the outhaul/cunningham setup is legal as far as I can tell. If you look closely you can also see I am using Harken bullets on the boom, but neither this or the cunningham micro block is anywhere near as much of a problem as the longitudinal carbon fiber stringers. That's pretty much irreversible. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  20. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    Longitudinal carbon fiber stringers? I don't see any—are they inside the spars?

    Just curious as to the Velcro strips in photo #1. I have similar strips on my deck, but they are peeling off. How were they attached, and what are they for?
     

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