installing racing cleats on boom

Carey Seven

New Member
I was wondering if anyone has any insight into the install of camcleats for outhauls on the Sunfish boom?
I want to install one for outhaul and one for boom vang or dawnhaul. need to know if I should use rivets or screws and how to orient the cleat.
Thank you.
 
I used 3/16 aluminium pop rivets. 3/16 stainless are the strongest, but they can be hard to find and they can only be removed with a cobalt drill bit. The aluminium has been fine for me.
 
I was wondering if anyone has any insight into the install of camcleats for outhauls on the Sunfish boom?
I want to install one for outhaul and one for boom vang or dawnhaul. need to know if I should use rivets or screws and how to orient the cleat.
Thank you.
Carey:
To prevent confusion, the vang doesn't need a new cleat. We use the halyard for that and it is tied to the cleat on the deck.
The 'downhaul' for the luff of the sail (usually referred to as Cunningham) is tied to a cleat on the boom that is not standard on older boats.
And yes, use the photos on the Starboard Passage site (see above) for clarification.


See also
http://www.laserperformance.global/product_images/pdf/Sunfish Rigging Guide.pdf
 
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Hi Carey Seven,

I use cam cleats for adjusting the two outhauls. I think of the top boom as more of a luff tension device and will refer to it that way here.

I stressed out about location for weeks, I hate drilling holes, and finally decided on:

1. The bottom outhaul cam cleat in front of the forward boom block and mounted at a three o'clock if you look at the end of the boom from behind. The rationale being that you would release the outhaul going into/around the weather mark and that in most cases you would be rounding on starboard tack. The three o'clock position allows you to do that. You also usually start on starboard, so it helps there as well.

2. I top outhaul cam cleat I mounted forward to the bottom cleat. I think about 8 inches. This allows the luff tension to be adjusted on either tack. I don't know that it makes all the much difference unless you are racing, but I tighten it up in flat water and a breeze.

I used screws as I had some handy, but I am sure rivets would work as well. These cleats don't take much of a load, and what load there is is a shear load. You will also be using multiple purchases so the load is reduced even further. In my opinion I would not worry about the strength part of the equation.

I will take a picture tomorrow and post it here.

As it happens I will be transferring the cleats to a new boom in the next couple of weeks as the old ones are corroded to the point that one of them now has a hole in it.

Good luck!
 
My ex-racer Sunfish spars had cleats, but since the spars were corroded, I sold them with my other "seasoned parts" to the buyer of my Porpoise II.

Those cleats weren't more than bent pieces of aluminum, making them a one-piece cam cleat. Is that the "allowed" design, or are others attaching more substantial cam cleats?

Pictures?
 

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I was wondering if anyone has any insight into the install of camcleats for outhauls on the Sunfish boom?
I want to install one for outhaul and one for boom vang or dawnhaul. need to know if I should use rivets or screws and how to orient the cleat.
Thank you.
Hi, I don't think I have ever seen camcleats used on Sunfish booms. Everyone uses clamcleats as they are compact and have no moving parts to worry about.
 
Hi Carey Seven,

I use cam cleats for adjusting the two outhauls. I think of the top boom as more of a luff tension device and will refer to it that way here.

I stressed out about location for weeks, I hate drilling holes, and finally decided on:

1. The bottom outhaul cam cleat in front of the forward boom block and mounted at a three o'clock if you look at the end of the boom from behind. The rationale being that you would release the outhaul going into/around the weather mark and that in most cases you would be rounding on starboard tack. The three o'clock position allows you to do that. You also usually start on starboard, so it helps there as well.

2. I top outhaul cam cleat I mounted forward to the bottom cleat. I think about 8 inches. This allows the luff tension to be adjusted on either tack. I don't know that it makes all the much difference unless you are racing, but I tighten it up in flat water and a breeze.

I used screws as I had some handy, but I am sure rivets would work as well. These cleats don't take much of a load, and what load there is is a shear load. You will also be using multiple purchases so the load is reduced even further. In my opinion I would not worry about the strength part of the equation.

I will take a picture tomorrow and post it here.

As it happens I will be transferring the cleats to a new boom in the next couple of weeks as the old ones are corroded to the point that one of them now has a hole in it.

Good luck!

On this post I meant to say "clam cleats" not "cam cleats". Sorry for any confusion.
 
Hi Carey Seven,

I set up the Sunfish today and took some pictures that you might find interesting.

Picture 1: Shows the arrangement of the outhaul clam cleat, got it right this time, at the 3 o'clock position and the cunningham cleat at the 6 0'clock position.
Picture 2: This is the arrangement I used at the tack to pull the cunningham. The line is tied around the eye bolt on the upper boom. I am sure people tie it through the eye bolt, but I did not. My thought was that the line would get pinched. I used a harken micro block tied on with spectra. Both are overkill, but I had these things lying around, and so why not? The tack is tied to the eye bolts which is hat the racing community apparently does. I don't race the boat, but I didn't like the S-hook. You will also see a piece of red wool that I used for a telltale. I have a different tell tale now, but I never took this one off. For it too work better it, it should be taped to the bottom. As it is, it gets tangled just like you see.
Picture 3: The outhaul goes over the gooseneck and back. The cunningham goes over the top. I have seen pictures of people putting it through, but this works for me and there is no chance of it getting pinched. What passes for a boomvang is the red line going down to the deck.
Picture 4: These are the cleats from the starboard side of the boat. You can see the trucker's hitch loop and the handle hanging through it. You might also note that these clam cleats have rollers. Spectra/dyneema is slippery stuff and you probably don't need them, but I had never used them before, so I splurged to see how they work.
Picture 5: The outhaul runs along the boom, and I led it through the aft mainsheet carrier, or whatever people call it. I tried running through the forward one as well, but the angle didn't work well. Regardless, the outhaul line never sags all that much, so you could probably do without it, but on the other hand the mainsheet does, so it was an easy call to go ahead with this.
Picture 6: The shows the arrangement at the clue. I tied it to the boom cap and then ran it through the clue back to the outhaul cap and then towards the cleat. There are purchases involved in that, but I did not seem to take a picture of that. Let me know if you want/need it.
Picture 7: This is what I stressed out about when mounting the cleats. In my opinion you want the cleats close to the shower rings when the tension is off. That way there is no interference to the sail when you add tension. I also did not want the lines to get wrapped up in the mainsheet. You can see the measurements I used.
Picture 8: Just shows how the lines go over or around the gooseneck. You can also see how the purchases are created by using a truckers hitch and a thimble

Hope that helps you.
 

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Hi Carey Seven,

Picture 7: This is what I stressed out about when mounting the cleats. In my opinion you want the cleats close to the shower rings when the tension is off. That way there is no interference to the sail when you add tension. I also did not want the lines to get wrapped up in the mainsheet. You can see the measurements I used.

NOTE: The measurement stick is to the end of the spar and not the black end cap. People usually measure things this way, but I just wanted to be clear.
 
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Picture 5: The outhaul runs along the boom, and I led it through the aft mainsheet carrier, or whatever people call it. I tried running through the forward one as well, but the angle didn't work well. Regardless, the outhaul line never sags all that much, so you could probably do without it, but on the other hand the mainsheet does, so it was an easy call to go ahead with this.
I call it the aft mainsheet duct-tape. :oops:

This was very well done and, even as a recreational sailor, I plan to add all of this to my Sunfish! (Adding the word ultimate to this reply so I can find it here when I've got some clam cleats located). At Google, you can also find them under "jam cleats"—as below.

What I was referring to previously—as a one-piece S/S jam cleat:
s-l225.jpg

At West Marine, they're now $17—double what I paid for one a few years ago. :eek:

I'd like to add a proper vang block and sheet, leading the line through the Sunfish deck cleat to a cam cleat near the cockpit. (To join the halyard clam cleat that is already in place).
 
Picture 2: This is the arrangement I used at the tack to pull the cunningham. The line is tied around the eye bolt on the upper boom. I am sure people tie it through the eye bolt, but I did not. My thought was that the line would get pinched. I used a harken micro block tied on with spectra. Both are overkill, but I had these things lying around, and so why not? The tack is tied to the eye bolts which is hat the racing community apparently does.
I don't race the boat, but I didn't like the S-hook. You will also see a piece of red wool that I used for a telltale. I have a different tell tale now, but I never took this one off. For it to work better it, it should be taped to the bottom. As it is, it gets tangled just like you see.
See the above race caveat in paragraph 2.

.
 
I call it the aft mainsheet duct-tape. :oops:



What I was referring to previously—as a one-piece S/S jam cleat:
s-l225.jpg

At West Marine, they're now $17—double what I paid for one a few years ago. :eek:
I used some plastic mini clam cleats I bought at West marine for $7.00. They worked well except for having to trim the flange on one of the pop-rivets a little. I believe they were Ronstan Fairlead V mini cleats.
 
Carey - do you have a racing sail? The standard sails I would not bother with cleats. The racing sails are fuller cut and the cleats allow for better shaping of the sail for different sailing conditions.
 
The sail I show in the pictures is from Intensity, which is described as a having a racing cut. I don't have another sail, so without measuring it I'm just taking their word.

One thing I really like about the Sunfish is how fast it sets up, and I originally got interested in the adjustable controls as a way to save time. Before installing them I had to tie the clews every time I went sailing which takes a couple of minutes, and sometimes I would forget, with not so pretty results. :) Now the lines are always tied on, and I just release the lines and don't worry about stretching the foot and luff when the sail is stored.
 
The block installed at the tack of the sail for the cunningham is not legal for racing.

Hi Doug,

Yes you are right on about that, and thanks for pointing it out. I should have made mention. The rest of the outhaul/cunningham setup is legal as far as I can tell. If you look closely you can also see I am using Harken bullets on the boom, but neither this or the cunningham micro block is anywhere near as much of a problem as the longitudinal carbon fiber stringers. That's pretty much irreversible. ;)
 
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Longitudinal carbon fiber stringers? I don't see any—are they inside the spars?

Just curious as to the Velcro strips in photo #1. I have similar strips on my deck, but they are peeling off. How were they attached, and what are they for?
 
The stringers are inside the boat and minimize hull flex. It's highly doubtful that anyone is ever going to race a 1971 hull seriously, and that modification/fix really put some life back into the boat. If you want/need more information, let me know, and I will open a separate thread.

The velcro you see is the peel and stick kind, and I use it to mount a small compasses on either side of the boat. There are actually two pieces fore and aft on either side, so depending on different conditions, I will use one or the other. The compasses were left over from a different boat, so I decided to put them back to work on the Sunfish.

You will also notice the anti-skid tape on the deck. I found that after cleaning the boat the side deck was just too slippery, and so I added two strips on either side and that solved the problem. It was a bear to get the arcs just right, but if I do say so, I think they look pretty good now.
 
L&VW....they have bath tub, peel and stick, daisy flowers, you might prefer over the side deck strips!!!!!
:)

( if you have a 60's boat) !!!!
:)
 
The sail I show in the pictures is from Intensity, which is described as a having a racing cut. I don't have another sail, so without measuring it I'm just taking their word.
I've had both, and the racing sail definitely has a resting "blouse affect" at the foot. Perhaps the Intensity can be "coaxed" into an acceptable shape by selective ties, rather than using the factory's supplied clips exclusively. (Tighter in the middle of the foot).

The stringers are inside the boat and minimize hull flex. It's highly doubtful that anyone is ever going to race a 1971 hull seriously, and that modification/fix really put some life back into the boat. If you want/need more information, let me know, and I will open a separate thread.
With three Sunfish, I'm sure to try longitudinals out on one of them. ;)

Why not use readily-available fiberglass stringers?
 
Why not use readily-available fiberglass stringers?[/QUOTE]

Hi LVW,

I think the answer to your question is twofold in that it never occurred to me to buy something preformed, and that I already had the materials I needed to create what I wanted.

I created the stringers by first cutting foam foundations on my table saw and then epoxying them then midway between the foam blocks and the keel. I think the foam foundations were about 1" x 1" by 30" or 36", I would have to look. I then used carbon fiber tape over that to form the stringers. The tape was maybe 4" or so, so the carbon fiber extends on either side of the foundation by quite a bit and forms a nice strong shape.

I will take pictures tomorrow and post in separate thread.
 
Carey:
To prevent confusion, the vang doesn't need a new cleat. We use the halyard for that and it is tied to the cleat on the deck.
The 'downhaul' for the luff of the sail (usually referred to as Cunningham) is tied to a cleat on the boom that is not standard on older boats.
And yes, use the photos on the Starboard Passage site (see above) for clarification.


See also
http://www.laserperformance.global/product_images/pdf/Sunfish Rigging Guide.pdf
got it thank you! however my deck cleat is pulling up and out even after rescrewing with #10 deck screws and 5200. I might need to look at the block underneath.
 
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Carey,

Take one screw out of the deck cleat and loosen the other and rotate. Put some epoxy (fiberglass) in the hole and when dry, redrill and put the cleat back in place and tighten. Then repeat for the other screw.
 
Carey - do you have a racing sail? The standard sails I would not bother with cleats. The racing sails are fuller cut and the cleats allow for better shaping of the sail for different sailing conditions.
yes I just purchased a used racing sail North sails
 
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Thank you everyone for all the responses. I have a N/S racing sail and an Intensity practice sail. I will only use cleats for downhaul and outhaul. I am just getting used to this forum and was having trouble responding...but I think I have it figured out now.
 
Sorry for all the multiple responses.I kept getting error messages leaving me thinking my posts were not posting.
 
Carey,

Take one screw out of the deck cleat and loosen the other and rotate. Put some epoxy (fiberglass) in the hole and when dry, redrill and put the cleat back in place and tighten. Then repeat for the other screw.

If your deck cleat is a bit dodgy I would consider putting a halyard cleat on the boom as Tag does here:

upgrades for a Minifish
 
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I would add the mast cleat no matter what. it's a much more direct connection structurally, and takes almost the entire halyard tension off the fiberglass deck.
 
I would add the mast cleat no matter what. it's a much more direct connection structurally, and takes almost the entire halyard tension off the fiberglass deck.
Very good idea, but I've found placing a cam cleat next to the cockpit eases hoisting—with no unsteady kneeling on the deck needed. The tension at the cam cleat (and the factory fairlead) is "in shear", and there's no evidence of damage from tension. Except for the necessary effort in releasing the halyard, a cheaper clam cleat would work just as easily.
 
Very good idea, but I've found placing a cam cleat next to the cockpit eases hoisting—with no unsteady kneeling on the deck needed. The tension at the cam cleat (and the factory fairlead) is "in shear", and there's no evidence of damage from tension. Except for the necessary effort in releasing the halyard, a cheaper clam cleat would work just as easily.

Hi lvw,

I use a mast cleat for the reasons tag mentions, but I also like it because I can use the loose end of the halyard as a boom vang. With the halyard tied to the mast, I can have the vang as loose or as tight as I want without worrying about halyard tension. Do you use a boom can't with your arrangement, and if so can you tell us how it works?

Thanks.
 
Not unusual in the Phantom, from which I got the idea.

Hi lvw,

I use a mast cleat for the reasons tag mentions, but I also like it because I can use the loose end of the halyard as a boom vang. With the halyard tied to the mast, I can have the vang as loose or as tight as I want without worrying about halyard tension. Do you use a boom can't with your arrangement, and if so can you tell us how it works?

Thanks.
I'd like to add a proper vang block and line, leading the line through the Sunfish deck cleat to a cam cleat near the cockpit. (To join the halyard cam cleat that is already in place).
 

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