European Boats

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by I break things, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. TheBoathouse

    TheBoathouse New Member

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    Your coach is full of Sh*@ and you can tell him I said so. The build specs of Lasers are identical world wide....The one difference you will see next year is all Lasers will be all grey and if you think that is to save weight you need to review your economics book, the chapter on economics of $cale
     
  2. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Good on ya Boathouse, nice to have someone that knows what their talking about
     
  3. fracisco

    fracisco New Member

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    Do we all get Aussie foils next year, too?
     
  4. I break things

    I break things New Member

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    Wo! calm down boathouse i was just asking a question to see everyones oppinion because personally i dont no crap about the difference between a PSE hull and a vanguard. Also my coach believed that a euro boat was faster and stiffer after racing on it but i guess it could just be a matter of oppinion
     
  5. TheBoathouse

    TheBoathouse New Member

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    We were suppose to have them available this year but the sale of Vanguard and some production problems in AUS nixed it...My guess is PSE will come out with similar foils next year
     
  6. Jacopo

    Jacopo New Member

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    Well,

    I'm writing from europe, Italy, and can't understand what we are writing about:

    In Italy lots of sailors buy aussie boats 'cause are made not with Polyester Resins but with vinylester ones, more stiff and water proof.
    Aussie boats seems to have 3 internal partition which make'm stiffer.
    We also buy aussie masts.

    We also buy USA boats for the daggerboard hole (?) is a little smaller and daggerboard don't vibrate.
    We also buy USA masts

    At any rate, we buy aussie and USA boats 'cause are cheaper, including transport costs.

    Just a question:
    when you buy sails in USA, can you measure'm?

    sotty for my selflearned EnglAmerican language
     
  7. TheBoathouse

    TheBoathouse New Member

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    Interesting the US boats are built with Vinylester but rumored not to be stiff....hmmm..I don't think the Aussie boats have 3 more internal partitons then others as that wouldn't follow the class build schedule...sounds like a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome. :eek:
     
  8. Jacopo

    Jacopo New Member

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    Maybe,
    the tripartition was sold us as consequence of aussie boat building laws.

    Voices, but aussie mast plastic parts are better
     
  9. Ross B

    Ross B Guest


    it always is
     
  10. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    The US Lasers are NOT built with vinylester. Thye are built woth ortho resin polyester. A few years ago Aussie boats were rumored to be built with Iso polyester.

    It is difficult , using the equipment I have available to conduct proper teast and be certain, but, after checking the two Aussie boats I repaired, I believe the rumor may be correct.

    Neither is the flat out "BETTER" resin of the two. The comparison is sort of like the Apple vs Windows debate.
    There is lots more ortho made and it has been carefully developed for lots more applications

    Iso resin CAN have some properties which MAY be beneficial with respect to longevity.

    On the other hand, ortho resin is used by so many more manufacturers than ISO that additives have been developed for Ortho that sometimes make ortho batches superior to some batches of iso....for particular applications.

    Summary?? I would buy an Aussie boat because I wouldn't deliberately give any money to Vanguard ever again if I could possibly help it. I really don't care which boat is better. Sleezebags who enjoy the fruits of your labor and withhold payment of their bills should always be avoided.
     
  11. I break things

    I break things New Member

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  12. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi again,

    I would say, this something for the so called "ILCA chief measurer". I allege that this high ILCA-Officer has access to the so called "Builders Manual" and he is the one that decides (eventually, in agreemant with the ILCA World Council), if such differences to other hulls of other continents are class legal or not. I hope, there they have discussed that aspects.... have they....


    My personal opinion is: The "North"-sails are class legal worldwide, if they are in the limits of the so called "measurement diagramms" (see ILCA Laser class rules) and are "originally builder supplied".

    This is also here at GER a hearsay (but not more...). The understanding is: those plugs/rings at the upper mast section, made at AUS, do fit very good to the lower section (better than those of NA and Europe). There are ways to class legal get the same "fit" also with the rings that are made outside of AUS. So, there is no need to import those rings from AUS. Save your money.



    I am sure, PSE Ltd. / Vanguard Inc. immediately find ways to stop that "big business".

    Ciao
    LooserLu
     
  13. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    There are two ways changes happen in the Laser rules:
    1. One or all of the builders tell the class of their intentions to make a change and the class takes action which leads to voting, acceptance, official ILCA approval of those changes, and creation of ILCA new rules which allow the new changes..
    2. One or more of the Builders make a change and the class adjusts the rules for that change.
     
  14. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    .... or with other words:

    "The Laser has become an "experimental"-one-design-sailling-class"...

    However, for me it is no matter, if I would have a Laser has a stiffer hull and sails with Aussi spars and foils and a gizmo here or there.

    I not more would be to find at the first 1/3 of the racing fleet only by using that stuff. Gouv, I would bet, you would pass me and my fast boat very-very soon before of rounding at the 1st leg the windward mark at Lake Travis, lets say with one of your grandfathered silverlasers of 197x of your backyard, only in reason the LooserLu not knows "the special-aspects where/how to sail at Lake Travis" .... ;0)


    Have all a nice Wednesday-midweek-race and lots of fun aftwards
    Lu
     
  15. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Lu..You are close to my personal truth / realization that keeps me from building a special cheater Laser of my own.

    I know I could build something that looks exactly like Laser and weighs 40 kilos.

    If I had $20,000 to blow on pre preg carbon materials, I believe I could make a 10 kilo hull.

    I also know, as you mentioned, there would be days I would lose races even with one of those special cheaterboats.

    it is one thing to get whumped while using the same equipment as everybody else.

    Winning every race with a super light boat would not be much fun as there would be no pride of accomplishment.

    Losing with a super boat would be downright devastating to the ego.

    I don't see any upside to the super boat other than it might provide super fun rides for the sailors.

    If we had fleets of 40 kilo Lasers...some of us could probably plane to windward and THAT would be a hoot!!
     

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