Another twist in the UK tale

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by jeffers, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    :) I've been at the 2012 Boltenhagen Laser Worlds (Tracy himself is my witness!). Only 2 or 3 of all of those charter boats there aft the event have been in a quality of "to sell directly aft the event". It is defintely a cost intensive work for our main Laser store to refubish those charter boats into a "again to sell"-quality. To me, the price for such a "charter"-Laser (no matter if of 2012 Olympic Games at Weymouth or of 2012 Boltenhagen Worlds, etc.) is sort of " appropriate", if in a quality of "to sell directly aft the event". BUT, it is not a Bargain at all to buy such an "Event charter Laser". For a sailing mate, I took home of Boltenhagen one of those three "to sell directly aft the event" charter Laser (he did pay me the gasoline). Later, I've been able to buy a never sailed brand new boat (# GER2031xx) of our GER Laser-Store in model-version "Classic" (nonXD) of the same price like one of those event charter boats (in model version "XD"). It has been the final sold new Laser in model version "Classic" here , the store owner told (any needed parts of a"Harken"-XD -version I have already in stock in my basement :p ). Reason, they don't any longer sell the version "Classic" here is: the low demand!
    In Summary: If you're able to buy, aft a major event, a Laser in a quality of "to sell directly aft the event" it is cheaper, then to buy it brand new one in model version "Classic", but in this quality there are not many of those charter Lasers to get. BTW: To me, the Olympic boats to get allways is a matter of honour, not a matter of "bargain". I never would come to the idea to delete the stickers of "Weymouth/Quingdao/Athens/Savanah"!! But, of course those boats have to get the 2 well known official ILCA/ISAF silver stickers a the rear wall of the cockpit, in addition with a class legal sail-number. I always thought: the Olympic boats in future stay at LP's- "Sail Laser"-sailing-school at Weymouth/Portland (or an equivalent LP-"Sail Laser"-base. That most of those boats already have been sold at the island of England is incredible to me!

    Finaly, to TLF member "BLS" (of PuertoRico), above: It is worth to sail Laser competitive. It definitely is more fun than at an(y) A-Class or F16 Catamaran! Come on and sail with us! Ask Tracy (via TLF-"private massage"-functionality), our ILCA president (aka TLF member "SFB Laser"), to help you to get a boat for you to P.R.!
    Then, in 4 years, we meet at Rio!... Me, as a fat and old spectator of the Laser races and you, probably as an Olympic participant in the Laser Standard (who knows)! Guess, even the age 43 Brazilian-"Legend of the Laser Standard", Robert Scheidt, retuns (view here: http://www.laserinternational.org/info/laserstandardrobertscheidtbrawillbeback ).

    So, up till then, I am quite sure, there will be produced enough boats of LP/UK or LP/USA or PSA (is my hope) to meet.

    Ciao LooserLu
    P.S in attachment: Me and my brand new LP/UK-Laser-"Manatee 2", aft her Christening Ceremony of the past Saturday :D
     

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  2. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    Is that contest still on their Facebook page? I looked for it and did not see it. BB
     
  3. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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  4. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    My mates boat was an ex 4.7 worlds boat. Hull is perfect and he got new spars, foils and sail with it.
     
  5. Slipstream

    Slipstream Member

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    Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does having the Olympic insignia make a sail not class legal?
     
  6. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    No, it doesn't it's just classed as advertising which is fully permitted with the Radial & Standard rig, there are more restriction on advertising with the 4.7.

    The reason why the Olympic boats were illegal was because they didn't have sail numbers.
     
  7. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Am I right in thinking that, whilst the advertising on the Olympic Lasers I permitted, this would only apply to that competition and that using the same boat with the same advertising may not be legal for maybe your National championship or a more local regatta (depending on their advertising regulations).

    It was a quite amusing tale from the Olympics in the UK over the advertising, commercial sponsorship and commercial gain. It seems that the various toilet for public use at the various Olympic venues had those electric hand driers and soap dispensers. And those items had the name of the manufacturers printed on the (as does my washing machine, fridge, etc. - normal practice for a manufacturer to put their name on the product). But those manufacturers were not commercial sponsors of the Olympics and other companies who were commercial sponsors of the event decided that it was quite unfair for companies who were not sponsoring to get commercial gain from the event e.g. the manufacturers of toilet hand driers and soap dispensers. So the organisers had to go round with opaque sticky tape and tape over the manufacturers names on the hand driers and soap dispensers !!

    Thus, is your sail has ads for brewers ABC Ltd all over it and you attended a major event sponsored by brewers XYZ Ltd, would you be allowed to use that sail ? And when you won and all the magazines had your picture standing in from of your rigged boat with the "Sponsored by ABC Ltd" on display, would company XYZ Ltd be feeling that their sponsorship was money well spent ? But then maybe company ABC Ltd had been sponsoring your training so maybe deserve some advertising/PR recognition ...

    Ian
     
  8. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Within reason, advertising on Standard / Radials is unlimited, that is, you can advertise what you want in restricted locations. Events like the Olympics do restrict advertising to their own sponsors. But generally, an event organiser cannot prevent you adverting your sponsors at their event. I haven't got my rule books with me yet to give give a clearer answer.
     
  9. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    1. Rule 76
      76.1 The organizing authority or the race committee may reject or cancel the entry of a boat or exclude a competitor, subject to rule 76.2, provided it does so before the start of the first race and states the reason for doing so. However, the organizing authority or the race committee shall not reject or cancel the entry of a boat or exclude a competitor because of advertising, provided the boat or competitor complies with ISAF Regulation 20, Advertising Code.

      If you really want to explore the minutiae of ISAF Regulation 20 you will find it at http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/2012ISAFRegulation20AdvertisingCode-[12007].pdf but I can't see anything in there which conflicts with what Alan says above.

     
  10. Geophizz

    Geophizz Member

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    I've actually heard the opposite. I know people who have withdrawn from the Worlds because LP isn't making boats for it. Everyone going to the Worlds is shipping their own boats down there or arranging for charters from local owners in Florida who are willing.
     
  11. Strangler

    Strangler Member

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    "Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does having the Olympic insignia make a sail not class legal?"

    It may within the Rules of Sailing but surely its contrary to the Olympic Constitution/Byelaws/Rules/Copyright whatever. And no doubt ISAF would uphold such rules. Think of all the shops along the Torch route that were told in no uncertain terms to remove Olympic logos.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Slurnet

    Slurnet New Member

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    The sails would be class legal with a bit of work. Removal of the flags and olympic insignias and addition of the relevant sail numbers.
     
  13. Orchadankine

    Orchadankine New Member

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    This is a new one on me! There are currently 2 dealers in the UK so some spares are available.
     
  14. Rheworris

    Rheworris New Member

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    What about the leftover Olympic boats?
     
  15. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    I would say they are all sold on by now.
     
  16. Brotban

    Brotban New Member

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    given the rumours of no availability of new Lasers, it might just be that those boats are the only option for people who want a new boat and "being stuck between a rock and a hard place" overprices 2nd hand is the best available
     
  17. Lleuteld

    Lleuteld New Member

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    Hi all, Had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine last night. He has just purchased a new Laser in the UK. I asked where he bought it ...
     
  18. Slipstream

    Slipstream Member

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    Sorry, for all the questions but was wondering:

    Would boats made for the worlds have greater potential for quality issues? I'm assuming hey have to lay up a large number in a relatively short amount of time, and the boats only need to make it through that event... Not saying anyone has any malicious intent or the boat is going to fall to bits but they may rush through it and that is a concern.

    Also do ex-charter boats come with warranties?
    If one was to buy direct from the ILCA, do they offer a warranty?

    Does any one have an example of a new laser warranty?

    Given the high new laser prices, and going concerns I'm also starting to wonder if it's worth investing more in the class... am I overreacting?

    Thanks
     
  19. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    And?...
     
  20. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Typically they start building the boats for the worlds (or other events where they supply/supplied the boats) months in advance. They can then schedule them into a slow building time.
    I bought one of the boats from the 2002 worlds after it was 3-4 years old and it was just as good as the other 2002 non worlds boat I had.


     

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