My first upgrade on my '71 ("Ruby") was to add the above swiveling cam cleat that you show above.On my 1980s Sunfish, I replaced the original fairlead with a swivel cam cleat like one below. They didn't use blocks on them like today. I really liked it and didn't have a problem with it as it was easy to release or use without locking. I like having a ratchet block on my new one, but do miss having a cam to use occasionally. I would assume you could use the block easily without locking in cam. I was hoping there was someone on the forum that has installed a 57mm ratchet block with cam. The Harken 2138 is the one I was looking at. I've found it for under $150. Expensive, but even not using the cam, it's a better block than the one that came with the boat.
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The Harken 240 is actually fine in the sense that the cleat doesn't move up and down when using it.On my 1980s Sunfish, I replaced the original fairlead with a swivel cam cleat like one below. They didn't use blocks on them like today.
Andyatos was using, and arguing for one a couple years ago here. Watching his own sailing video though, I was pretty convinced that it's not a good solution. The angle of the sheet between the cleating and uncleating directions looked impractically large (meaning, hard/impossible to use in a hiking position). But he might join this discussion himself to tell more.I was hoping there was someone on the forum that has installed a 57mm ratchet block with cam.
I find it fascinating that Lali has left out of his posts on this subject of how much I like the Harking 2138 that he has never actually used one. But I have to say my favorite quote of his on this subject is, "I'm pretty sure the cleat does the wrong thing at the wrong time...".Andyatos was using, and arguing for one a couple years ago here. Watching his own sailing video though, I was pretty convinced that it's not a good solution.
Beldar, I have seen a lot of inconsistency, as to where the boom blocks are mounted on sunfishes over the years. I have had a 66, 71, 76, and a 77. The forward boom block on the older Sunfishes (who am I kidding, these are all old, lol) … The forward boom block on the oldest of my Sunfishes was further back, closer to the stern when compared to the newer Sunfishes that I’ve owned. When I saw AndyAtos’ videos, I moved the forward boom blocks forward to get a better angle on the ratchet block. I found that improved my experience.I haven’t watched the video, but the boom blocks apparent different location could be because the two of you might have the gooseneck in very different locations.
I don't understand why you would ever need to hold a sheet with your teeth. The way I learnt to sail I always have the sheet in hand. I have deck cleats, I don't use them very often, but if I do I still keep the sheet in my hand. Probably the only time I would let go of it is if I am stopped and the sail is unpowered.I'm tired holding mainsheet in my teeth to change grip or open the bailer, etc
I don't understand why you would ever need to hold a sheet with your teeth. The way I learnt to sail I always have the sheet in hand. I have deck cleats, I don't use them very often, but if I do I still keep the sheet in my hand. Probably the only time I would let go of it is if I am stopped and the sail is unpowered.
I think it probably would be ok. The good part is, you can just adjust the angle of the cam cleat to compensate for how much the main sheet that's coming down from the forward pulley on the boom is forcing the cam cleat side of the block downward.After writing post I looked at my 2022 Sunfish and it appears the boom block is a lot further forward that the one on your boom. It's a LOT closer to downward to the block, maybe just a little less than you mod. I wonder if that's enough to make the 2138 work ok.
Actually, before I moved the pulley on the boom forward to right over the block, the main sheet was causing the cam cleat side of the Harkin (the stern side) to be pushed downward towards the cockpit floor. So, this made it really easy to uncleat but hard to cleat. Moving the boom pulley forward brought the Harkin more upright when loaded by the main sheet.Once you got the angle from the boom you liked, was it easy to sail using the ratchet block and not getting locked in cleat? Your video showed you tacking and leaving it locked.
Reading this actually made me laugh out loud.When I learned to sail you were taught to sheet with your teeth. I’ll never change - it’s the best way to add a “3rd hand.” However, I now have a full set of dentures. While I usually use poly grip, I’d I know I’ll be sailing I use the g-flex West epoxy - so far my choppers have never come loose using that stuff.
Oh my, that guy could really use some coachingI think that Jeff Scott, who's videos I loved watching while he was producing them, has to be the King of Teeth Cleating. Check out his videos. Here's one where he gets right to it.
Good point. It is possible the top of the fiddle block might want to catch the mainsheet at an inopportune time (when using it with a standard Sunfish rig). However, I think I will appreciate the holding power of the ratchet block when rigged with the Super sail. The fiddle block gives a 5:1 assist, but in heavy winds it is tiring to hold on to. That's when the ratchet on the fiddle block would be nice.It would save having to buy a cam cleat, but won't you find its slightly added bulk annoying--when it's not needed--on the Sunfish rig?
Reading this actually made me laugh out loud.
I think that Jeff Scott, who's videos I loved watching while he was producing them, has to be the King of Teeth Cleating. Check out his videos. Here's one where he gets right to it.
- Andy
Actually, before I moved the pulley on the boom forward to right over the block, the main sheet was causing the cam cleat side of the Harkin (the stern side) to be pushed downward towards the cockpit floor. So, this made it really easy to uncleat but hard to cleat. Moving the boom pulley forward brought the Harkin more upright when loaded by the main sheet.
Once you have the block and cam cleat adjusted to where you know that you are going to be able to uncleat in almost any situation, you can then sail with it locked but it's important to have the tail of the mainsheet nearby so that if you have to quickly uncleat you just grab the mainsheet tail next to (or even on top of) your leg and give it a yank.
When the conditions are acceptable, I will frequently leave the mainsheet cleated when I tack and just bring the tail of the mainsheet across the boat with me. I'm not suggesting you do this but I haven't taken an unscheduled swim with this approach. Yet!
Best,
- Andy
Here's a couple of pictures of my Harken 2138 today. I haven't changed the angle of the cam cleat in years.Andy, any chance you could post a pic of the cam cleat position you found worked the best for you. It might be good to have a starting point and realized due to boom block, etc., my position might have to be different. I was just wondering how far from where it came originally you needed to move it.
Yup. In the first photo of the Harken 2138 I ever saw, I noticed the person who posted about the block that he liked so much had flipped the cam cleat over. And removed the fairlead. There's all kinds of little things that need to be done to get it to perform. I call it the, "Frankenstein Block".Andy, didn’t realize you turned the cam cleat upside down from how it comes.
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