Originally posted by Unregistered
Sorry to post into an old thread.
I Cannot claim to be an expert laserer just yet but as a long time weight trainer i would say that if like most people you only have say 3 hours a week non sailing to keep in shape then meaningfull weight training is the way to go. As a very ex Cycle racer i think i dare to say that even a hectic laser race does not place drastic demands on VO2 capacity and only modest levels of fitness in this respect are required. So spend your effort where the payback is.
3 x 1 hours is more than enough but mix and match some cardio in. A lot of serious weight trainers get suprising levels of cardio fitness just from the intensity of the big lifts like squats and deadlifts but if you have not trained before it should take some time to get that kind of effort for even 80% of your workouts. Ideally of course every one does cardio as well.
Finally if you think weight training is about sets of 50 with dumbells, pec decks and lycra pants dont bother and dont mention my name
JohnW
Originally posted by 49208
John, I have to respectivily disagree with you on a couple of points. First is to remember the orginal poster is asking about training for the 35+ age group, so any sort of heavy weight training at that age places a huge amount of trauma and stress on the joints (knees, elbows, shoulders) Recovery time is also much longer, it would be hard to lift heavy 3 or even 2 days a week on the same muscle groups, so you end up cycling thru the major body parts.
*** Have replied inside quote.
*** Well as a 43 Year Old i think with guidance you could work up to heavy weights (Heavy for the person in question) with say 3-6 months of conditioning no probs, but of course you have to take the individual into account. And i was talking about a 3 way split routine which as you know covers the whole body over the week.
I've been a competitive power lifter until recently and that type of weight training, which you seem to hint at, is at the opposite ends of the spectrum for getting max performance from your body for sailing Lasers. I'll agree 50 reps is not the answer either for leg lifts, dumbbell shoulder raises(which help a lot for pumping), dumbbell curls (which help with steering) but you need to get into the 20-30 rep area, which means lighter weights. Training heavy translates into muscles which fatigue or cramp prematurely on the race course due to the latic acid buildup.
*** I would say i think Power Lifting workouts are specialised for the purpose of max strenght in a few lifts and by definition PLers tend to start out pretty big and strong. Workouts like those can tear up a seasoned lifter used to more volume based techniques (10-15 rep range) let alone a newbie.
***I am of course happy to be disagreed with but the kind of action during Laser Sailing is fairly isometric (static contractions) and the ability to lock against a force rather than continuous contraction and negative contraction over a full range of a limbs range of articulation such as in running and cycling. Of course the ideal is a compromise between the two weights and cardio.
I can only speak from personal experience as far as cardio and VO2 capacity as it relates to Laser races (both short college type races and the longer races encountered at championship regattas) and will agree that the level of conditioning for competitve cycling of races longer then 10 minutes is far greater then needed for a typical Laser race, however it is higher then you can achieve thru weight training 3 times a week. My own sailing performance improved dramatically when I changed from a power building weight lifting routine with limited cardio, to a much more cardio oriented workout with much lighter weights and much higher reps. Much less cramping in the arms, able to straight leg hike much longer, and better O2 use which translated to smarter decisions.
*** Well i am on dodgier ground here. But i would attribute better fitness from say 1-2 x bodyweight squats and Deads than you do, but i suppose it depends on no. of reps/sets and the body type of the lifter and the effort put in. But a P-lifter routine is typically 3+ x Bodyweight for a few (6 or less) reps for 3 sets. Joe average cannot do this even if i wanted to. I have a bad memory of challenging a non cardio-ing Bodybuilder of the same age age to a bike race, I won, but had to hang on to him for the first 15 miles and killed myself to get a slim lead to the finish, i was shocked at how he could hurt himself and still breath untill you consider the gut wrenching workouts body builders consider the norm. Ok Far to much commitment required just to support your sailing but the point is valid.
*** The points you make about Lactic acid are interesting as my own experience is mixed. But i would admit that whilst weight training normally, i get worse lock up in the legs whilst cyling than during a break in weight training.
But the only occasion i can think that i need that kind of muscle action Sailing is continual pumping the sheet in blowy conditions but that is when fitness counts so i am tempted to defer, but would make the point that the best cadio would be with a large arm component such as rowing machine. Hence my veiw is Running and Cycling is poor pay back sailing wise and that is from someone who loves cycling.
*** So i humbly retract my joke about 50 reps with the pink dumbells if its a Lasor sailor doing rows in his Lycra hiking over-pants.
No comment on the Lycra, but it looks pretty good on the opposite sex in the gym, which helps pass the time away on the treadmill, bike, stair climber, eliptical etc....
RobKoci said:Real old thread here, but topical and worth reviving as winter approaches. My problem is that I am 160lbs, 5'7" and 50 yrs old and with a wonky back from too many years of working construction and playing football. It's almost a waste of time sailing a Laser if I can't get superfit and 170 so that's the goal for CORK in August. My plan is to pound on the weight (pun intended) with heavy lifting till Feb., then work in cardio as sailing season approaches. If I end up at 165 - 168 that would be okay. I'm seeing a fitness coach this week to work out the plan. I'll let you know how it goes. If something works for me, it will work for anyone.
I've heard a lot about pilates from friends at work. They swear by it. We'll see if it fits into the plan. thanks for the advice.Merrily said:Good luck with the plan. Watch the knees too! Pilates might help your back. I've been doing it for a couple of years and have never had such a strong back and abs. It stretches you at the same time you work the muscle. I have no problem with my back with hiking.
I also lift weights and swim with fins or cycle. I'm similar weight and age, and it took a couple of years to get the fitness levels I wanted. I'm still making cardio and strength gains and only work out three times a week usually, plus sailing. Consistency is important.
Janet
RobKoci said:I've heard a lot about pilates from friends at work. They swear by it. We'll see if it fits into the plan. thanks for the advice.
maximbmf said:Last summer was my first time back on the water in 20+ years; I crewed on Scows and messed around with my own Laser. Im 46 and was 230 lbs.
This winter Im trying to get down to 215 lbs by doing group Pilates three days a week and group cardio (cycling/RPM grops) three days a week. My goal is to increase my overall core strength and function. So far the Pilates has helped alot in Curling (the ice kind -not bicep). Im also counting on the Pilates and cardio to help out with Snowboarding this winter.
My biggest problem last season was elbow pain -epicondylitis, or "tennis elbow". Hauling in chutes on the scows and sheeting in on Lasers, particularly in stiff winds, has caused a good deal of epicondylar pain. To compensate, I did more with my shoulders -which resulted in bicep tendon pain. Growing old sucks.
My season is now officially over. My "home" lake boat partk on Lake Mendota closed in October. My alternate lake (Beaver Dam Lake) started icing up two weeks ago .. so I finally but the old gal away for the winter. It's was about 2 degrees F this morning.
mikescott said:I am 58 and have just started Laser sailing. Coming from a background in high wind windsurfing and triathlons. I am sticking with the triathlon training. It is well rounded incorporating weight training along with swimming, biking and running (duh). It should give a good balance of general fitness that will carry me through on the Laser. I think it is also important to have a strong core and will be working on that with a stability ball and plan on building a hiking bench soon. I would recommend this work out regimen for anyone, but especially for us older folks.
Mike Scott
Merrily said:Mike,
Not all of us older folks have the knees for running. You are lucky.
Janet
ben661 said:Sometimes i wish i had never built a hiking bench for the sheer pain that it puts you through lol
144679 said:hey ben, so thats why i can't catch you up the beats, i think a hiking bench is deffinatly a project for this winter,
i'm a little comfused, how does using a hiking bench effect your hearing?ben661 said:yea i definitely helps but it hurts, i haven't used mine for ages but when i used to get off it i couldn't walk or hear much for about a minute