Disclaimer: I'm not a racer because there are virtually no races near me, and, to be honest, I could care less about racing.
Why aren't we, as consumers, rewarding Intensity for making, if anything, a better sail for less then $200 and make it the standard and slowly phase out OEM sails.
Intensity was the biggest blessing I've ever seen in my little Laser world. I had never seen a brand new sail before I bought theirs. I refused to be gouged. Not only did I get a brand new sub $200 sail but it came with battens, two cases, a fancy clew tie down and the highest quality sailing calendar I'd ever seen. It even came with tell-tales and numbers!!
That's an incredible value. You guys would know better then I if the Intenstity sail has the same merit with respect to sailability etc. It's my understanding that it's designed to be more durable then the OEM.
My question is this, why aren't we rewarding them for doing an incredible job and, if anything, going more then the extra mile?
What seems disappointing is how slow the Class Association has been in reacting and starting to investigate alternatives. I appreciate that changes in ILCA are slow (probably good in some regards) but also appears that reactions have been slow.
Folks, sorry to dredge this subject up again, but in my experience, rule changes that benefit the builders' bottom line get through to a vote by the members, and those that don't seem to disappear.
Reason I know this is because there WAS a sail designed and a prototype tested by me, Fred and Eric Faust among others some time around 1999 - 2000. Can't remember. Anyway, it had (surprise, surprise!) bigger reinforcing patches, better batten pockets, a redesigned sleeve and was modified slightly to account for the mast joint - all specifically aimed at improving the competitive life of the sail.
Ian, with due respect, you need to reread the first post in this thread, from Lainie Pardey the former ILCA-NA Vice Chairman, in particular:
That was only about 6-7 years from the introduction of the current standard sail!
Mason Pepper, former Chairman of the Asia-Pacific Region championed this continually until he retired in 2004, after which it has been taken up by the TMC. Finally the builders are also onboard, I think really because both LP and PSA are under new leadership and they believe the time is right for the Standard sail to evolve to the next level.
But also realize that they are selling far more Radial rigged boats than Standards now so this isn't necessarily their highest priority, hence the rather slow pace of progress.
Mason Pepper, former Chairman of the Asia-Pacific Region championed this continually until he retired in 2004, after which it has been taken up by the TMC. Finally the builders are also onboard, I think really because both LP and PSA are under new leadership and they believe the time is right for the Standard sail to evolve to the next level.
They are still not addressing the longievity issue (in the short term, I know there are new designs floating around) but they are at least trying to address the price issue....
For me the price and longevity are pretty much the same issue. If you have a disposable sail that lasted only a weekend but only cost £1 (or $1) then it would be a bit wasteful but no price/longevity issues. Similarly I would happily ay twice the already high price for a sail that would keep shape sailing every weekend in F6 for 10 years. Both stupid examples but is many respects it is cost per race (or cost per year or similar). Trouble is that from what people say (as I don't have any knock-off sails) the 3rd party ones are both cheaper AND last longer.
But being honest I still (presumably happily) pay the high UK price for class legal sails anyway - only because I want to race Lasers and not because I need to be legal for Open Meetings/Regattas.
Ian
---snip---
Over here LP are offering huge discounts for what is a small amount of work for people. They are still not addressing the longievity issue (in the short term, I know there are new designs floating around) but they are at least trying to address the price issue....
Can you give some real examples of what sort of quantity vs discount you are seeing in the UK ?
I would beg to differ. In the UK I think LP have seen a significant drop off in the volumes of new sails (all sizes) that they are selling and it is finally starting to hit them where it hurts (in the bank balance).
Now they are doing something about it but only because they are not making the money they were before.
Perhaps what the class really needs is for IT to become the main driving force behind the rules and not the builder (or for at least a more co-operative approach from the builder). The class would need to get the rights holders on board though (not even sure if this would be possible).
Until that major (and unlikely) change happens we are stuck with the status quo and we have to push as a class to let the builder know what we want and that we will do things they don't like such as buy replica sails if they are not prepared to do anything.
The 3rd party sails on the whole are more durable and a lot cheaper (I do have one and use it for club racing). Even when you take into account supply chain and the support of a dealer network (absolute tosh in my opinion, here in the UK we can buy directly from LP so the chain is Manufactuerer -> LP -> us) the genuine sail is very expensive. That and the fact that suddenly LP can offer huge discounts on relatively small volumes does tend to back up the popularly held belief that the builders make a huge profit on each sail that they sell.
Imagine that - direct sails (pardon the pun) and the dealer network didn't even blow up!
What's that to say that they start lowering the price for everything where the dealers can't make any money because they can't sell the parts like LP does and everyone goes to LP for parts. That would destroy the dealer network.
If the legislating body woke up one morning and decided that everyone had to use an Intensity sail it would mean three things;
1) Everyone would be saving $400 every time they bought a sail
2) Everyone would have the same sail
3) There would be no need for measuring.
Problem solved.
The legislative body INCLUDES the builder - basically nothing happens without their approval.
Five years ago I was campaigning for Ross for VP.