martin_y said:I didnt allow this to faze me, but I coudnt help thinking " dude, we are coming last, WHAT is the point of jostling to keep me behind you, while the fleet gets away? "
Now I think that we had a chance of catching up 1 or 2 boats again. But when he started his argy-bargy tactics, all that did was slow both of us down. The only boat we overtook was - a capsizee. :-( (and I did manage to get past him on the run later)
Whilst I realise he did everything according to the rules, what on earth is gained by it? Surely it is far far better to sail FASTEST and hopefully overtake the next boat/s ahead.
Or, is "for me to win, everyone else must lose" the best thinking? ? ? ????(ala Michael Schumacer!)
martin_y said:Hi everyone
Today I sailed my first open meeting. Out of 20 boats, I was finishing in the last 5. There was 1 boat that came last every race. In the last race, though I was about 9th on the 1st lap, I slid down the fleet, and eventually landed up sailing with this last boat, with the fleet not far ahead of us. He managed to just get ahead of me, as we started the beat. We were really close together.
Ok, so he was to windward of me, and I wanted to tack, so I bore away slightly, and I tack behind him. So he tacks immediately. After a short while, I tack again, so he tacks immediately, and so on, and so on, all the way up the beat.
I didnt allow this to faze me, but I coudnt help thinking " dude, we are coming last, WHAT is the point of jostling to keep me behind you, while the fleet gets away? "
Now I think that we had a chance of catching up 1 or 2 boats again. But when he started his argy-bargy tactics, all that did was slow both of us down. The only boat we overtook was - a capsizee. :-( (and I did manage to get past him on the run later)
Whilst I realise he did everything according to the rules, what on earth is gained by it? Surely it is far far better to sail FASTEST and hopefully overtake the next boat/s ahead.
Or, is "for me to win, everyone else must lose" the best thinking? ? ? ????(ala Michael Schumacer!)
Deimos said:I am quite surprised (and disappointed) in your attitude to "this guy" - this "looser" as you call him. You may think of him as a "looser" and then get angry when he tries not to lose. I don't know about fleets in the US nor Laser fleets in general as I'm new to sailing Lasers, but in every other class, wining is far from just about going fast. Its a continual balance of speed, risk, tactics, what those around you are doing, etc. If you cannot handle having a duel with somebody then you should ask yourself if you "are playing the right game". Maybe something like chess might suit you better.
The fastest boat is far from always "the winner". In my experience tactics plays a much more important role than speed (both for inshore and offshore racing) If you cannot break the cover of a "tail ender" then you will generally be a "tail ender" as well. Nothing wrong with than - just stuff to learn Sounds to me like this guy was helping you learn - if you could get past your annoyance and trying to provide how right you attitude is you might actually learn something and be better places to keep ahead in future.
No prizes for going fast. The results are based on the finishing order. The more boats behind you the higher your position in the fleet.
Ian
StephenIles said:Duh - how do you get nice format paragraphs ?
laser2_9804 said:If I was coming last I would probably do what that guy did. Maybe he'd decided it was too late to try and make up ground on anyone else so he thought he'd have a bit of fun with you. Sounds like he was trying to psych you out, which I think is a typical part of sailing.
When you're in a class like lasers with such tight rules and guidelines it means every boat is pretty much the same in regards to sail shape/cut, hull shape, gear etc - therefore if you just plan to win by 'going fast' it is unlikely to happen. You can't beat a boat that is exactly the same as you just by going fast. Tactics have to come into play at some point. Maybe the guy just thought it would be a good oportunity to practice on you, as stuff like tacking duels take practice and concentration in order to make sure it pays off for you.
Don't be disheartened about where you came. Everyone comes in at the back of the fleet once in a while. All you can do is learn from it and work out where you can improve. For example, if you are in the situation again like the one you mentioned (emulating the other guys sail setting etc and he still pulled away) try and catch the person after the race and ask them what they did. I find most people are pretty willing to talk about things like that with less experienced people. He might have just got lucky and picked some shifts or found a line of breeze that you missed.
Good luck in your next races, and most importantly, have fun!
gouvernail said:Dang!! I just don't get it. I placed one of shose wooden strike anywhere versions next to paper safety style and sat and sat and sat.
How can you tell when those suckers are racing??
Wafoo said:,I know he can luff me but if it involves him going into wind,well who's right?
Deimos said:[FONT=Verdana, monospace]An aside here but where on a Laser do you fly a protest flag from ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, monospace]Ian[/FONT]
Hey I'm sorry, but your post made me feel a LOT better ! Because its not just me ! Fancy a game of chess, then ?Wafoo said:Had the same thing happen to me yesterday,there was about 8 of our fleet out,myself and another guy were battling it out for fourth and fifth,he got ahead of me on the run down to the last mark,then I sneaked past him on the beat,despite him cover tacking me all the way up,by which time everyone else had caught us up!
My main gripe was I finally got him on starboard so he tacked under me,then luffed up straight into me which entailed him going througth the wind,he then moaned about protesting me,quoting windward boats etc,demanded 720's so having a life outside of sailing I retired,thing is it was for fourth place in a nothing series and his actions almost cost him his measly point,as you can guess this got me quite irate,so think is,how in the right was he,I know he can luff me but if it involves him going into wind,well who's right?
Just read this and it sounds like sour grapes,but the guy just annoyed me,tried to talk to him afterwards he just blanked me,asked him to try and explain it to me he just stormed off,now as I said I sail for fun,but knowing there are guys out there like this makes me think it's time to change