I agree with Beldar, I think it would be pretty hard to improve on a sail shape that has been proving itself for quite a long time. It’s really all about getting the best VMG to the weather mark ( in your case, home)!I tend to think a basically flat made sail, will still have a curve in it when it gets 15kts of wind in it...simulating a draft, so to speak. IDK....thats why Im tossing this out for thoughts.
I do quite a lot of sewing...but its marine canvas stuff like biminis and sail covers. Only repaired sails, put in view windows etc. No sails ftom scratch.
My main gripe about Sunfishes are the lousy pointing. Many of my launch areas are at the back end of coves with the wind shooting straight down the length. Tacking back upwind is like just going perpendicular, back and forth gaining no ground. While on this tacking subject, usually shooting down the shoreline gives me more of a wind angle. Any rate..the launch site is usually chosen due to wind direction. If a flatter sail allowed 5 degrees of higher pointing... i might make it home for supper and before dark!
I remember that super-long board. I’m glad you have a modern board.I have a very nice 69 in dry condition. I have the new rudder setup but a wooden blade. I did buy a fiberglass daggerboard (and still have the largest wooden one too). I did add/extend 12" to a wooden daggerboard; but didnt realize any noticeable difference ...but it was a hassle to pull up when beaching not to mention dealing with the boom, most of all.
There's a thread about that...probably a couple years back. Maybe ill see if i can find the link, if you have an interest in seeing pics and construction progress.
Yeah...the new glass board was noticeably better.
I think Skipper might be referring to theI do have an adjustable gooseneck. Im not following how a geezer rig would help pointing....or even the deck sweeper??
I do a lot of sail repair...just not new from scratch....and get lots of stuff from Sailrite with my wholesale acct. Their prices are best for Sunbrella and Tenara thread over any of my other wholsalers
I think Skipper might be referring to the “end plate effect “ that might make the sail more efficient when lowered to the deck sweeping position. I feel like you are destined to building the sail that you envision, if you don’t, you’ll never know!
I’m not a sailmaker so please correct me but I think sails are usually designed with the depth of draft & placement as a percentage aft from the luff to be powerful & efficient in lighter air. As wind builds, the controls you mention are used to flatten & depower to keep the helm balanced & keep the boat on its feet. you mention making a flat sail that will acquire shape as the wind builds, my concern is, will the shape really be where you want it or to far aft which would flatten entry with a hooked leach. I also believe nylon stretches more than Dacron therefor will not hold a designed shape as well.
just my 2 cents!
Tom
Snark sailors have good luck with Tyvek™.Thoughts? Flat so I can point higher, but less power ( less drag too? ) I'm guessing as well.
Also...using 1.5 oz ripstop nylon vs 4 oz Dacron....which would be about 30% cheaper in cost
Thoughts? (Will stay out of 25kt plus winds!)
At the top of the thread, all I was desiring was pointing as high as possible...and to further clarify...even if I have drag my cooler on a windward side. Compared to a conventional cabin, cruising or displacement hull race boat, the Sunfish isnt even in the same league for pointing...which for me makes a difference with no motor and sailing upwind to get home. Plus if the goof-nuts at Farrar Sails didnt muck around, they would have never come up with high aspect, flat top experimental sails. Im no Dennis Connor, but sailing since a kid and own a marine repair business. I just enjoy "busmans holidays" ;-)Tiller time might outweigh time on the sewing machine!
I rent-out a cottage for two weeks every summer to a plumber. He "optimizes" the cottage's plumbing, advises on changes, what is state-permitted, or adds necessary devices.I'm no Dennis Connor, but sailing since a kid and own a marine repair business. I just enjoy "busmans holidays" ;-)
Ok, I’m sold on the fact that you want to point higher. The problem I keep envisioning with a flat sail is that while it “looks like” you are pointing higher, the side slippage from a small foil with not enough boat boat speed will be detrimental to your windward progress (VMG).I can agree with not really being able to improve (easily)the already proven sail. However sail shape in most boats is totally adjustable thru outhauls, cunninghams, halyard tension...and stuff like backstay adjusters to flatten or increase the draft. Therefore a sail most likely will be in a middle ground, to allow for the widest range of desired adjustments....in MOST cases.
That noted, Im not looking to improve the current sail overall...just to more permanently make it so it points higher....usually achieved with tighter luff, less draft ..on cruising/racing boats at least. I would figure the Sunfish would react to the same type of adjustments in a similar fashion.
And....im not nearly concerned with power or speed...JUST pointing higher.
Kinda in the same vein as a storm jib . ....smallish and flat...just looking to keep sajl trim balance, center if effort, and speed is totally not high on the list.
Well, I am Dennis Connor, and I do enjoy busman’s holidays - all I do is sail, sail, sail.Im no Dennis Connor, but sailing since a kid and own a marine repair business. I just enjoy "busmans holidays" ;-)
Hi Dennis! Many moons ago I had the pleasure of sailing on Long Island sound on a home built cat with trapeze made by the man who designed the S&S mast foil. Learned a lot, and heard good things about you.Well, I am Dennis Connor, and I do enjoy busman’s holidays - all I do is sail, sail, sail.
I read your idea. We tried an idea like that on Stars and Stripes one time. While the boat pointed higher, the flatter (not flat) sail kept stalling and losing lift. So we went back to our more standard sail design.