Too much master's coverage in the Laser Sailor?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by 154537, Nov 19, 2006.

  1. 154537

    154537 Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I recently got my fall laser sailor and noticed that a huge % of it is devoted to master's issues and results. i was wondering if anyone else out there agrees that the master's should have their own, separate magazine...
    to fill the empty space their could be more technical articles that talk about technique, training, etc...
     
  2. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The following is a simple fact. Prhaps we must ignore the fact or even deny it to succeed as a game.

    75% of the membership is over 35
     
  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Didn't some master just win the Laser World Championship?
     
  4. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Actually, its more like 50%... check out this page for the end of August statistics. We have to report to ILCA on August 31, and pay membership dues by September 31, so that is effectively the end of the 2006 membership year (ie people that joined after are good through 2007).
     
  5. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Isn't regatta coverage largely a result of someone who got up off their butt, wrote something, and sent it in? If you're not seeing enough coverage of your particular events, maybe you should take that as a hint.
     
  6. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I just hope that I die before I get old.
     
  7. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I just went through the Fall issue and did a quick, albeit subjective, survey. To me it looks like just under 30% of the content is Master's specific which, given the fraction of Masters to total membership, is probably fair.

    If there are articles/topics that you would like to see in TLS you should feel free to let Jerelyn in the ILCA-NA office know. You can email her or call 619 222 0252 and I bet you find that she is happy to hear what people think/want.

    Of course, the best way to see stuff in TLS is to help contribute by sending articles! If you have stuff that is at the Fleet or District level, pass it along to your District Secretary and I'm sure they will be happy to include it in their District Report. If something at the Region level or of general interest (technique, etc.) then send it to Jerelyn.

    The deadline for the Winter issue is December 15!
     
  8. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    48
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Isn't that amazing: over 50% over 35 in a boat that is not very comfortable and physically demanding!
    I see the aging of the sailors around me and I am looking forward to being 35 myself so that I can compete in these Masters regatta's, since the young people are simply not there!
    What does this mean though? Should we blame the young people, or should we blame the older generation for not attracting enough young sailors?
    Georg
     
  10. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Just a few inflammatory comments.

    Masters seem to like their personal No kids regattas because the masters are too chicken to sail with the more athletic sailors. Why? Their fragile old man egos fear losing. Waaaaaaa

    Masters already had the chance as teenagers to use their physical strength and agility to win against their old man competitors but since becoming old have used their influence to re write the rules so young athletic sailors are forced to sit still. The masters hide behind the chicken weenie excuse that "sailing would just be a physical contest."
    yeah right...Laser racing without your old man anti use of the body rules might be just like the contest you you loved to play when you were young and athletic yourselves. Selfish chicken out of shape old farts are ruining the game for the real athletes so they can compete in what is now a pathetic diluted used to be sport. Selfish selfish selfish!!!

    When todays masters were young, the old guys were given occasional "look at the old guy who still comes out and even remains almost competitive" coverage. The publishers of the magazine knew nobody gave a rats patootie about old has been guys. Most of the coverage was about the real cutting edge sailors, the great parties, the fun and the sheer excitement of great racing where everybody was having fun in a great boat...TOGETHER.

    DIVIDE AND CONQUER!!
    Of course now we have split the fleet into Lasers, Laser wimpy rigs for girly girls, Laser wimpy rigs for girly boys, Laser teenie weenie rigs for little people who ought to be in Optis, Lasers for old men, Lasers for even older men, Lasers for absurdly old men, wimpy rigs for girly old men, wimpy rigs for social security aged old men, and soon these divisions will be further divided by those who have new fast laminated foils and slow flexible foam foils.

    Is it any wonder the fleets are pathetically tiny and the cool kids quit bothering to come as soon as they can drive?

    Summary:
    We need one Laser with one rig and one sail for all sailors so we can all go to the same starting line and have sailboat races around the same courses.
    Certaionly the little folks will win in light air and the big folks will win when the wind is 15 to 20. When the wind is 0 to 5 or over 20 size will not matter and technique and tactics will separate the sailors from the wannabe sailors.

    Flame away!!
     
  11. Laser76489

    Laser76489 Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16

    Wait for it you will be there soon enought....
     
  12. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    48
    [​IMG]

    I think there are a couple ways to look at this, you certainly present one view.

    Just for discussion sake, I'd argue that more then half the old farts that go to a master's only event would never go to an open regatta even if there were no masters events. They would just leave the class and find another class that caters to them. I'd support that with the theory that prior to the masters events being born, the class had less then half of the current paying masters.

    As far as old farts getting Rule 42 changed, as you like to point out, if you want something changed, you have to pick up the hammer and change it. So all the athletic or pro-kinetic people need to get together and make their voices heard and present a suitable alternative to the current rules. A little whine here or there from a few voices isn't going to do the job. Certainly getting themselves into political position within the class and/or ISAF to further that cause (or any other that would shift bias their way) would help. So, where are all these poeple ? For whatever reason, they don't seem to be stepping up to the plate. Oddly enough, it is the old farts that seem to be taking the lead in this, they at least talked and I think tried some loosening of parts of Rule 42 this year in a few regattas...

    Not sure I understood all your comments on the radial and 4.7 Without those rigs, for sure we would loose people on the race course and class membership to other boats if we all had to sail full rigs. At least we are "keepin it in the family". Long time ago, I could count on one hand the number of women sailing at a Laser regatta when all we had were full rigs. The others were sailing sunfish where I was sailing or sitting on the beach
     
  13. sailor327

    sailor327 New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the past 3 comments have made me wonder why we have rule 42. Rule 42 just takes away another aspect of this ever evolving sport, it seems like the only reason it is there is because people, coughmasterscough, complained about it and they thought it gave other people unfair advantages casue they couldnt do it as well as them.
     
  14. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Rule 42 is part of the Racing Rules of Sailing. It isn't just a Laser rule--it's for all sailboats that race.

    Honestly, some of the comments here make think that you feel that master's sailing really takes something away from the sport. I'd think the youngsters would be happy to have the geezers on a separate course. Many young people sure make an effort to keep away from old people the rest of the time!
     
  15. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    48
    It's not just old farts that complained about kinetics - you could say it was a body of people who felt it gave the full time sailors (loosely defined as anyone who can sail as often as they want) a clear advantage over those who could only sail/train/perfect their kinetics when time/job/money/family/etc/etc/ permitted. There were other factors as well besides this aspect in the ever evolving rules of kinetics..

    There are a select few who can be described as full time sailor and a large majority of all ages who don't.

    Does that mean it was the right decision ?
    Should the game be defined so that the minority are happy or the majority ?
    Do we need different games ? (perhaps where one game is a no holds barred)
    What about spending limits ? (Some classes limit the amount of sails you can buy in a year for example)


    [​IMG]
     
  16. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I sail in Masters events because sometimes they are all I can find and I like racing .....period.

    I do not enjoy the pleasure of sailing while the kids are thrown off the course as much as I would enjoy that pleasure of sailing against the kids and old farts at the same time.

    As a master, I have sailed in the Midwinters and won every single race by a long distance against the apprentice, master, women, and junior fleets. My pleasure in that event was found racing in the teens of the entire fleet against the teens and twenty somethings who were sailing near me.

    Why the hell would any sailor want to exclude any other sailor, especially one who might serve as competition, from any Laser race?
     
  17. Laser170806

    Laser170806 New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the reason none of the young guys step up and take positions within the class is that we don't have time. I for one try to sail every moment I can but between school, homework, and work it is hard to sail more than twice a week, much less participate in the class.
     
  18. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    If there is no school there is work, and if there is no work or school there is sailing. I don't know if time is the reason. We all have time limitations (yes we are mortal)!
    In any case, I often encounter people (both young and old) who think that if you pay the entry fees for regattas and your club fees, you are entitled to an unlimited amount of sailing. Many sailors have never been on a RC. I can not explain this phenomenon, but I think clubs need to educate their members and tell them very clearly that sailing is made possible by volunteers and that you are also supposed to step up the plate once in a while. That can mean that you run a crashboat once a month, that you help with race committee work, organize a regatta, write for the Laser Sailor, or do some maintenance work on the club house.

    In other words, it is not a choice between school or work and sailing, but between sailing every race or sailing 95% of the races.
    Georg
     
  19. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Amen. Life is a balance. You get what you give. If it's school and work that keeps you from sailing when you're young, it'swork and family obligations, (like your kid that has soccer games or something) that keeps you away when you're older. You MAKE the time to be involved. Sometimes that means you sacrifice time on the water for yourself to make the class better for everyone. That's how you "give back" to our sport. Class dues help too, but I'd argue it's people giving their free time and energy that make up the most successful part of any successful class or class event.
     
  20. sailor327

    sailor327 New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thats why if i have kids im goin to help them develop a love for sailing, im going to have enough kids to have my own little sailing team. and ill have the gigantic money tree in the back to fund it.:p
     

Share This Page