Strange goings-on in the Sunfish class

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by torrid, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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  3. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Interesting. I was just reading through the "chronology" pdf, and the short version seems to be that LP said "do as we say or else", and now they are doing the "else" by forming their own Sunfish association. I wonder what the position of World Sailing is on this? And does a class association have to be "licensed" by "the owner of the intellectual property"?

    My first thought concerning the Laser class is that we might be safe as there isn't a sole trademark owner. As long as the Australian and Japanese builders are in the game, LP can't do whatever it wants.
     
  4. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    That was essentially what I posted over on SA. With the Laser, there are just too many people seated at the table. That's why the lawsuit fell apart. The Sunfish has just the global builder and the class.

    This just showed up:

    International Sunfish Class Association

    LP has been playing typical dirty pool. Weeks before a world championship, they threatened to withhold containers full boats unless the class signed over rights to both "ISCA" and "International Sunfish Class Association". That would give the builder complete control over the class, and of course the class didn't sign.

    Interestingly, the class seems to have opted to allow non-builder supplied parts as class legal. I'm not disagreeing with that given LP's behavior and viability, but appears the neutron bomb has gone off on both sides.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  5. tag

    tag my2fish

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  6. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    "The World Council was prepared to sign a trademark agreement until LP required that the ISCA initials and the name International Sunfish Class Association name were to be signed over to LP as well."

    "In August 2017, the World Council decided that we would not sign the restrictive trademark agreement and changed ISCA class rules to allow non-builder supplied, class approved spars, masts, goosenecks, sails and parts."
     
  7. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    "For two successive years, 4 weeks before the World Championships LP has threatened to withhold the containers of World Championship boats unless we signed their agreement."

    Nice. And these people are the same that the Laser class has to deal with.
     
  8. tag

    tag my2fish

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    so weird.

    ISCA can longer use the Sunfish logo, but per the President's letter, the ISCA is the only one that can host the Worlds.
    But the LP chronology timeline hints that LP will be hosting the next worlds.
     
  9. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    I think that will only happen if LP can get World Sailing to turn ISCO into the recognized class association. Plus I really don't think LP is going to want to organize a worlds. It is hardly their core competency (although except for chaos and disfunction I am not sure what their core competency is.)
     
  10. beaker

    beaker hi

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    I guess LP was with holding boats for the 2017 worlds, they had no intention to ship them until the customer, the Charter Supplier, informed them that LP had a Paid in Full contract with him not ISCA and that LP would be liable for all expenses incurred by not delivering the boats.

    Once that came out the boats took a faster boat to the US, they made it just in time for the event!
     
  11. tag

    tag my2fish

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    ISCA vs ISCO - makes me think of Life of Brian.

    jdf.gif
     
  12. tag

    tag my2fish

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  13. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Based on the changed legal scenery, Can ISCA now appoint a new builder?
     
  14. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    It's complicated. I believe they basically can, with WS support, approve any boat built by anyone for racing under their jurisdiction, but the builder can't call the product a "Sunfish" or use the logo. The same goes for other parts, and it's naturally a problem if the legal non-LP sails can't show the class insignia. So, in the future, we may have "Sunfish" regattas where people use both "Sunfish" and "ISCA" parts, including hulls.

    Fundamentally, I don't understand how anyone can prohibit a non-profit organization (like the ISCA) using their trademarks. I understand it's different for builders and dealers.
     
  15. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    I think what needs to happen is ISCA and WS need to come up with a new class name and create a construction manually that closely follows the current boat, or at least the pre-China-built boats. LP is free to build boats to that spec, but can only advertise them as class-legal with the approval of ISCA and WS.
     

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