Rule 42 a) = bull crap

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by OliLaser, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    [FONT=KDDJLA+Arial,Arial]42.2 Prohibited Actions
    a) pumping: repeated fanning of any sail either by trimming and releasing the sail or by vertical or athwartships body movement;

    42.3 Exceptions
    b) Except on a beat to windward, when surfing (rapidly accelerating down the leeward side of a wave) or planing is possible, the boat's crew may pull the sheet and the guy controlling any sail in order to initiate surfing or planing, but only once for each wave or gust of wind.

    In planning conditions the sail can be pumped once for each wave. However the definition of a wave, or what constitutes a wave, is missing, also the definition of a gust is missing. If you own an anemometer you'll know the wind speed is never constant and that a gust or a(brief sudden increase) happens about once every millisecond or quicker. The way the rules are worded curently, in planing conditions pumping should be unlimited as it is impossible for the on water judges to prove that there is not a puff or that the little tiny ripple 'moving' your boat is not a wave.
    Any thoughts? I will be using this defence next time a judge blows a whistle at me in 25 knots downwind for "pumping" what a joke.

    Gust
    A brief sudden increase in wind speed.

    Wave
    1. One of a series of ridges that moves across the surface of a liquid (especially across a large body of water).



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  2. cbyc_radial_sailor

    cbyc_radial_sailor New Member

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    lol but if everyone starts doing that then the judges will change the rule.:(
     
  3. phosphor

    phosphor Member

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    I hate it when racing becomes a game of "who is the better lawyer." I think most people know what is meant by it. I'm only an amateur that hasn't raced lasers yet so I could easily be wrong about the more competitive world. If I am mistaken please let me know, but come on, don't be rediculous.
     
  4. laser167373

    laser167373 New Member

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    im on your side olilaser that is bull
     
  5. phosphor

    phosphor Member

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    Hmm... I might have worded my response wrong. It is a stupid rule, I just hate that people will use any wording possible to gain an advantage. My friend from RPI told me that in a collegiate 420 for regionals, one boat protested another on a life-jacket strap hitting the mark. Seeing as the sailor whose life-jacket allegedly touched was facing inward, he couldn't see the strap and thus could not truly contest the protest. That kind of sailing erks me.
     
  6. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    agreed, postesting for stuff like that is wrong, and will not get you anywhere. He did not mean to hit the mark, and is something that is frivilous. It's people like that that ruin racing
     
  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    I don't sea anywear in the Raysing Rules of Sayling wear it saighs that its OK to hit a mark as long as you didn't meen two.
     
  8. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    well yea, but with your lifejacket strap? I mean come on! anyone that would protest over that is pretty pathetic.
     
  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Yea hit erks mea two.
     
  10. dyzzypyxxy

    dyzzypyxxy Member

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    It reduces everyone's enjoyment of the sport when people get pissy about what is "accidental" and what is sportsmanlike, as well as what is spelled correctly, roight?. btw, there is a spell check above the message box.

    Haven't we all passed a little too close to one of those infernal inflated tetrahedrons in wavy conditions, and had the mark rebound off a wave, bounce over and hit your boat?? It still counts as hitting the mark even if you don't mean it to. I can't say I'd protest the guy about the lifejacket strap, but I'd certainly go over to him later and tell him he'd better cut off the strap because it hit the mark.

    Rule 42 is an inadequate attempt to preserve sailing as the sport it was meant to be, and prevent it from becoming a pumping and sculling contest like what windsurfing has become.

    In my opinion they need to take a step back next time they look at re-writing it, and make it a statement of what you CAN do, rather than trying to define what you can't. Just like what the Laser Class rules do. eg. You can propel your boat in a race using "only the natural action of the wind across the sails and the water upon the hull and blades" This way, any time a judge sees someone doing anything to cause unnatural wind across the sail by pumping or ooching or whatever, or causing the water to pass artificially across their rudder or daggerboard, they can whistle it and make it stick.

    Wording it this way would also enable fellow sailors to protest under Rule 42 more easily, although it still would require a witness to make a protest stick. Or a video . .. hoo, boy!

    The best way to sail and have fun is to just stay clean and clear, and avoid any situation you possibly can. Ask any of the top sailors.
     
  11. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    If it was going to cost me the race in a high level event I'd protest it:

    1) jacket straps aren't that long, so you'd be cutting it pretty fine. The wind would have to be blowing from the leeward side to have a strap bellowing out far enough to touch a mark while allowing the boat to be clear and for a sailor not in the boat to see clearly. With you hiking to windward? It couldn't happen. What is more likely is that the jacket touched the mark and the excuse was it "just scraped the strap". Well that's still touching.

    2) if your mainsheet touches the mark same thing. Doesn't matter you didn't mean to, you should have pulled the sheet in. I've seen people frantically heal to windward to clear marks before, so skill is invovled - no excuse.

    3) the Rule is clear. Touch the mark, do a penalty turn. The person who knew and thought to try it on breaks the sportsmanship rule as well.
     
  12. phosphor

    phosphor Member

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    I understand that he was at fault completely. I'm not saying he wasn't, and it was a light air race I'm assuming which gives reason he might be out on the leeward side of the boat. In 420s the crew leans out as far as possible to hold the jib out when going downwind on a reach so maybe something happened in the transition. Could've happened on a transition to wing-on-wing too.

    My point was just that even though I understand why they'd protest that and probably be tempted to as well in a high level event, I enjoy sailing more for the sport, not the verbal disputes. I'm on a sail team, not a debate team.
     
  13. dyzzypyxxy

    dyzzypyxxy Member

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    I agree, in a high level event it's more likely to cause a protest. Two mitigating circumstances, though.

    1. The person didn't know the strap touched the mark. IF they knew, they presumably would have done their circle and you could have passed, but IF they acknowledge the infraction after the race, they must withdraw. Pretty heavy penalty.

    2. IF the boat had rounded legally, a few inches further from the mark so that the strap did not touch, would it make enough difference that you (presumably the next boat behind) could have passed?

    Just my opinion here, but the sportsmanlike thing to do here is ignore it - just like "unavoidable" contacts between boats, this was unavoidable because the person didn't know their strap was out there.

    At high level regattas there are people with enough at stake - worlds berths, Olympic team berths, national sailing teams that mean funding etc. - that they could say you hit the mark even if you didn't and make you do a circle allowing them to pass.

    If I were on a protest committee hearing this one at a high level regatta I'd require you provide a credible witness to the touch. What are the chances that somebody else saw it?? I think it gets thrown out without an unbiased witness anyway.
     
  14. jamesfreedman

    jamesfreedman New Member

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    Most of the time I just let stuff slide. Just the other day I told a port tacker to cross even though I had to duck. Maybe I am just a nice guy. If the guy's lifejacket strap hit the mark, what a good rounding that was. I dont think that the guy could prove it without witness and I beleive the onus is on the protestor.

    As far as Rule 42 goes, I think one pump per wave or gust is sufficient enough for me to get the most out of the boat. And believe me I am all for kinetics.
     
  15. LaserBen

    LaserBen New Member

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    You've missed out a very important phrase in your analysis of the rule.

    "in order to initiate surfing or planing"

    technically, every single little ripple is indeed a wave, but you've got zero chance of ever surfing on one. The judge will rule that you were not pumping in order to initiate surfing because the wave is obviously not surfable. Therefore the exception does not apply.

    Game over. If there was no on-water jury i'd sure as hell haul you into the protest room...

    And if you are already surfing (downwind in 25 knots) then the exception doesn't apply either, regardless of waves or gusts.
     
  16. HECS

    HECS New Member

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    Ben's correct, surely.

    And if you DO pump when you're already planing in 25 knots, then you should be disqualified. This is one of the rules that are necessary to make the sport work.
     
  17. LaserBen

    LaserBen New Member

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    Why thank you :) I'm glad someone agrees - I was just about to print a large stack of protest forms :D
     

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