RANT - leading edge of daggerboard trunk

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by 49208, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Here's my gripe -
    Why do we, as members of this class, accept the totally lousy design/implemantation of the trunk/daggerboard at the forward edge.

    What I'm ranting about is how the daggerboard and trunk wear each other down due to the forward pull of the shockcord and the raising and lowering of the board.

    I have a less then year old boat, and within 20 hours of sailing had already worn a groove in the front of the trunk ! I also have a 1977 boat that where I have had to fill the grove numerous times, along with cleaning up the leading edge of the board.

    I'm PO'd that we are expected to pay $4500+ for a new boat that eats itself as soon as you start sailing, especially when there are numerous solutions that would add little or no additional cost during manufacturing or as a sailor add on-

    For example, when I'm not racing, 2 small layers of Duct Tape cover the worn in groove and prevent additional wear on both the trunk and daggerboard. It also has the additional benefit of adding just enough friction so that the blade doesn't pop up that annoying 1-2" when tacking during upwind sailing. The tape lasts at least 20 hours before it's worn thru - it's not even worth it to try to calculate the cost of roughly 2" of a roll of $8 tape

    A small piece of marine carpet would do the trick too. I'm sure lots of other ideas exist out there to, but what ticks me off is that the rules have not been modified to allow this. Instead we are asked to destroy our trunk and blade and repair them constantly.

    This is just un-acceptable to me. It's got to bug a lot of other folks as well. I'm not savvy enough to understand how to go about lobbying for a change, but perhaps Shevy or someone else with the knowledge would care to share what it takes to get the class to change/modify the rules.

    I do know that public opinion always helps, so if you agree with me that it's time to fix this, please reply to this thread, and we'll let the class know that it's not just one or two nuts with nothing better to do then complain.


    :mad:
     
  2. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    > I do know that public opinion always helps...

    It does.

    As long as it is not voiced as a "criticism" but as "constructive advice". If the former, some local little men with little minds may and do get upset.

    I would support a proposal for a rule change to address this simple issue.

    The problem with the daggerboard popping up an inch at every tack is now aggrevated even more than before with the high-standing camcleat fairleads on the new deck cleat base.

    The wear on the leading edge of the daggerboard and of its well causes the foil to rotate (trim forward) and does affect performance. It moves CLR aft, plus creates turbulance at the bottom edge of the foil. Currently, they should be regularly maintained.

    If you follow the ILCA NA Mailing List, you will have observed that a related topic is being discussed there, too: Discussion has been about what the "hardest" paint that could be used on the Laser daggerboard is! (And the answer is "VC 127 / 128 underwater epoxy primer".)

    To start with, contact your local class Measurer, contact your local class Secretary, and ask them to suggest to the ILCA World Council such a rule change for consideration in their next meeting.

    Check your own class association's website to get the e-mail addresses of these officers.

    Ultimately, the rule change needs to be proposed by the World Council and voted on to be approved by the membership worldwide. But that's so if we assume the ILCA Constitution will be followed.

    Shevy

    PS. Do any of you have a copy of the most recent "Laser World" magazine? If so, is your copy saying something about the "new interpretations" of the new rules being now published on the ILCA site?

    PPS. Obviously, the appropriate board for this thread is actually the "Laser Class Discussion" board.
     
  3. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    On page 3 of Laser World it says:

    "2003 RULE INTERPRETATIONS AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE: www.laserinternational.org"

    However after browsing the site's rules pages and using google to search the site I can't find anything to substantiate the published claim. I'm in Falmouth on Saturday so I might go and ask them...
     
  4. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    That is unless there are clarifications within the published rules. I have had a glance through but I can't see anything obvious AND there is no mention of such changes in the amendments list at the top.
     
  5. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    Is there a good way to modify the existing centreboard interface? The ILCA may not be in favour of tape or paint as it needs replacing at regular intervals.
     
  6. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Better mind's then mine can figure that out, but they allow UHMW "tape" to be applied to the mast lower section where it contacts the side wall of the mast step top/bottom, for more or less the same reason (to prevent wear on the mast and mast step tube) and that needs periodic replacement.....

    I'm sure there are some other rubber/plastic compounds that would be even better on the trunk - I think a little friction at the front of the trunk would be ideal.

    I can tell you I would much rather replace some duct tape as opposed to refilling the groove in the front of the trunk and refinishing the leading edge of the board after every regatta.
     
  7. macwas16

    macwas16 New Member

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    Just for an idea, I just fixed the worn out leading edge using a strip of felt tape. The felt provides resistance for the board popping up and is working out very well for me. :)
     
  8. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Let us know how it wears, it sounds like a good suggestion.
     
  9. lasermike

    lasermike New Member

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    Try using a weaker bungie cord, or adjusting your break. My hull is a 1987, and has no wear on the leading edge of the board or the trunk, other than from were I hit some objects.
    MB
     
  10. PeterPurple

    PeterPurple New Member

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    I have a 78 with no wear to leading edge of board (I bought the boat from a guy who hardly ever sailed, and I have used it for 2 summers). I don't bungee my board, I just loosely tie my painter to the board. My brake holds the board down, I've never seen is pop up. I pretty much need two hands to raise it, perhaps its too tight.

    Is there a rule that says you need to bungee your board?
     
  11. pirouette

    pirouette Member

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    I have 1976 boat that was not raced/sailed much before I got it. Since I have been trying to race (i.e. losing consistently), the trunk slot seems to have worn quite a bit. I get a regular gusher of water through the centerboard trunk when sailing in chop upwind. I measured the centerboard thickness (31mm) but don't have the specs for trunk hole and am wondering if the trunk wear is larger than normal.

    I have asked other sailors and some say they get water and other say they don't. My cockpit gets filled with quite a bit of water even though the drain is open until I get to the reaching or downwind legs.

    Any ideas? is this symptomatic of trunk hole wear?
     
  12. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Go to www.laserinternational.org, then follow the link to "ILCA Rules" then you should find "NEW November 2003: ILCA Rules Interpretations "

    These are what you are looking for?
     
  13. ChrisSmith

    ChrisSmith New Member

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    In every Laser I've been in, even with a new rubber brake, the board won't stay up or down without shock cord. Yours is tighter than the norm.
     
  14. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    Pierre Laviolette:

    Nobody ansered your question since August!

    No, shockcord is not required, per se. The blade must however be secured by a line OR shockcord. See the Rules on www.laserinternational.org


    Probably you have too narrow a centerboard well.

    But you can check the maximum thickness of your daggerboard, too. Lay it flat on a table. And maybe use a sturdy ruler positioned across the blade, exactly parallel to the table (measure elevation from table at both ends).

    The maxium thickness should be 33mm or less for the board to be "legal".

    Shevy
     
  15. pirouette

    pirouette Member

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    Shevy-
    I had looked through the Class Rule book and can't find any dimensions specified - do you know if there is any spec on centerboard trunk dimensions? It is of course very specific on the blade. When beating to windward I get a virtual waterfall coming through the centerboard trunk that fills the cockpit (even with cockpit drain open) until I round the mark to reach or go downwind. I try to push it out with my foot but that distracts me from more important issues and doesn't help momentum issue. I have asked other sailors and they claim they aren't getting water in. My daggerboard is 31.5 mm thick
     
  16. AustinLaser

    AustinLaser New Member

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    I just bought a new Laser and it gushes out the trunk, maybe not as bad as yours but I haven't had it out in more than 8-10knots yet. Also the board slops side to side at the bottom of the trunk which is very annoying and probably slow.

    I think the two problems are related, and would like to fill or tape the bottom of the trunk to cure the slop and gush, but does anyone know if that is legal?
     
  17. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Not legal.......
     
  18. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    A little follow up to the this topic. While I'd like to believe my rant had some minor effect, the fact is that the issue of centerboard and trunk wearing is being discussed by the World Council. You can read about what they are thinking from the report that Tracy Usher (NA Laser VP) wrote on the World Council meeting in Turkey Go to Page 8 in the PDF document to read the WC discussion on board/trunk wear

    While the topic is still fresh in their minds, we need to keep reminding our NA class leaders (district secs and vp/pres) that the current situation is totally unacceptable and we want some legal method of keeping our board and trunk in good condition.

    Until that time, I'm continuing to sail with a small (1" square) piece of indoor/outdoor carpet glued to the front edge of the top of my trunk. It's done the job for me.
     
  19. wabbit

    wabbit New Member

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    One might argue that that using tape to repair the forward end of the centreboard case might be allowable under:

    From the Laser Class Rules:
    ...provided such repairs are made in such a way that the essential shape, characteristics or function of the original are not affected.

    I once read somewhere, can't remember exactly where:
    "If you are doing something to your Laser to make it go faster, it is probably illegal. If you are doing it to prevent fair-wear-and-tear its probably acceptable within the Rules."

    In my opinion, I think placing some tape on the forward end of the centreboard case to PREVENT WEAR would be acceptable, to place carpet, rubber or other material to prevent the centreboard from popping up or wobbling would be against the rules. My two cents.
     
  20. Radialater

    Radialater New Member

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    ---------------
    but this would change the essential shape, characteristics, AND function of the original and is in no way legal.
     

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