Prettying Up a '74 Laser

F

Frankenfly

New Member
Just got hold of a '74. Very nice condition, with beautifull dark wooden daggerboard, rudder and tiller and Holt-Allen (England) hardware.

Bottom edges of daggerboard and rudder a little scratched up. Would like to refinish/varnish those edges without screwing up the main wooden sections.

Any knowledeable suggestions as to how to proceed on this would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
I've refinished my wooden blades a couple years ago, from a 76 boat. They required some extensive repair as they had large chunks, splits as well as a little rot. I used West System epoxy to do the repairs, then stripped what was left of the original finish with heavy sanding. I refinished with West System epoxy, about 5 or 6 coats brushed on. This results in a thick, hard, glass like shell that will need some finish sanding to smooth out the waviness from the brush. It also requires a coat of UV proof varnish to protect the epoxy from the sun. I was very impressed with the results.
 
sailor327 said:
If you plan on racing the wooden blades aren't legal but it shouldn't matter in a club race.
Click to expand...

I believe the wooden blades are legal, provided they are used on a boat that was originally fitted with wooden blades.
 
what kind of wood were these old blades made of anyway? Teak maybe?
Did they stain them before finishing them with whatever varnish they used?
Whatever they did, they look great.
 
It's odd... it looks to me like a mmahhogany, but one spot on my daggerboard has worm to bare and has the characteristic gray color of teak....

I havent done my tiller or daggerboard yet, but I did my grab rails with good results using the following:

1. Sand to bare wood, sand to 220 grit
2. remove dust with tack cloth
3. oil with teak oil (lowes, home depot), let dry
4. brush on a THIN coat of minwax spar eurethane, let dry (will not look very good)
5. Sand with 220, remove dust with tack cloth
6. repeat steps 4 & 5 for a total of 3 coats
7. After the third coat dries, coat with a minwax paste wax. (lowes etc)

I'm going to get my daggerboard and rudder done in the off season this year... just know it will take a couple weeks to do them correctly and dont have spares.
 
pez said:
It's odd... it looks to me like a mmahhogany, but one spot on my daggerboard has worm to bare and has the characteristic gray color of teak....
Click to expand...

typically, mahogany will go a bit gray if left in the sun with no finish... yuo should see the wood in my old boston whaler.

i see a winter project looming.
 
LOL... winter '09?

most of my projects end up that way... I bought a bailer from west coast in June... think I might get it installed this week :)
 
Hey Pez,

While you install your bailer check out the pics on my website about install, and see if there is anything you would add to the technique.
 
sailor327 said:
If you plan on racing the wooden blades aren't legal but it shouldn't matter in a club race.
Click to expand...

As Pez pointed out, if the wooden blades came with the boat, you can use them 'legally' (but this is moot, since you are not planning to race).
 
pez said:
It's odd...

I'm going to get my daggerboard and rudder done in the off season this year... just know it will take a couple weeks to do them correctly and dont have spares.
Click to expand...

We can help you with that off season stuff. There are days here when it is just plain nasty and sailing is stupid but, if you have some winter travel time, we almost always have soft water and loaner boats.

Example....Our Wurstfest Regatta is usually about 10 days before Thanksgiving. Plan ahead and bring a gang!!

Oh yes...For those wooden blades...Chafing is a serious consideration. Varnish loses the battle with the trunk. it does not matter how many coats you use, bare wood will show up in hours.

Coating the blade with a clear epoxy means you must keep the blade out of the sun but your epoxy finish can last for years and years.
I hate to paint wood more than any practical and rational person could. However, if I had a wood blade I would probably coat the top part that sits in the sun while sailing with VC Performance Epoxy. The rest of the blade I would coat with West System and keep that pretty wood grain where I could admire it.
 
jamesfreedman said:
Hey Pez,

While you install your bailer check out the pics on my website about install, and see if there is anything you would add to the technique.
Click to expand...

Hey, rock on... good stuff from your website... The only thing was that my boat pre-dated lasers being shipped with auto-bailers standard, so I have no old bailer to remove, and had to drill the hole for the screw myself (I just said screw myself)...

Anyway, the only Interesting snag I came across is that the brass fitting I purchased didnt fit. The hole in the back of the cokpit was the same size as the interior diameter of the fitting I purched. So some nuances with the old boat... I looked at drilling out the cockpit hole to allow me to use the fitting, but it would be a complicated setup to get the hole drilled in the right place, so I just installed the thing in the existing hole... maybe off-season I will figure out how to drill it out without ruining something.
 
What a bummer to hear. Maybe a sander bit would be easier for you to widen the hole a little bit at a time would be easier. I resealed mine as well to make sure no leaks were coming from the area. In older boats that I have had I just placed the bailer in the recession loosely and held it with one hand while drilling in the hole where i wanted the bailer to fit. Is this how you did it or do you know of a better way for future reference to others in your same situation?
 
I did exactly that, had a friend hold it in place, then drilled a 1/8" hole through the bailer's screw hole, then removed the bailer and drilled out the 1/8 hole with 3/16... (5mm and 7.5mm bits are hard to come by at lowes).

After that it was a pretty uneventful install... placed sealant around the 'molly' that holds the screw into the hull, tapped it in, placed the little pad on top, then sealant all around the bailer, placed it and let it cure overnight. Then covered the screw itself with sealant and screwed it in, then covered the screw head with sealant.
 
Wavedancer said:
As Pez pointed out, if the wooden blades came with the boat, you can use them 'legally' (but this is moot, since you are not planning to race).
Click to expand...
Yeah you guys are right, when i read pez's post i realized i was thinking of opti blades whic arent legal if they are wood.:eek:
 
pez said:
Hey, rock on... good stuff from your website... The only thing was that my boat pre-dated lasers being shipped with auto-bailers standard, so I have no old bailer to remove, and had to drill the hole for the screw myself (I just said screw myself)...

Anyway, the only Interesting snag I came across is that the brass fitting I purchased didnt fit. The hole in the back of the cokpit was the same size as the interior diameter of the fitting I purched. So some nuances with the old boat... I looked at drilling out the cockpit hole to allow me to use the fitting, but it would be a complicated setup to get the hole drilled in the right place, so I just installed the thing in the existing hole... maybe off-season I will figure out how to drill it out without ruining something.
Click to expand...

The early boats had no liner in the bailer hole.
Up until sometime around 1982 the lasers came with a plastic liner in the bailer hole. Then they switched to the brass one which is in use now.

my take?? The early boats had a hole in the glass which was only large enough for the rubber stoper. The remaining surface area on that little smile shaped wall was available to glue the hull and deck together.
Sometimes the hull and deck separated at that place and the boats leaked.

When the boats were built with the plastic liner, the hole in the fiberglass had to be cut bigger to acomodate the liner. The liner was crappy p;lastic junk and did not contribute much if anything toithe structure. The hull and deck had even less adequate stuff holding the hull and deck together and leaks regularly developed right around the bailer hole. The plastic fix was worse than the problem it was implemented to solve.

Beginning sometime around 1982 the boats were built with a brass sleeve and nut combination that was smaller than today's system. The nut and sleeve did not fit properly on each side of the hole and the hull tended to tear around the hole and leak..
The key improvement made after that is the angled washer which resolves the problem of the non paralell gelcoat surfaces on the opposite ends of the bailer hole.

Some mid eighties boats managed to break and leak around the bailer hole. My 116160 was one of them. I fixed a few dozen others. Actually I should say I tried to fix them. A leak around the bailer hole is not a tragedy and can usually be fixed. When the hull and deck are so separated that the brass fitting is cracking the gelcoat al around the hole, the cockpit floor is also broken loose frokm the hull and the repair is damned near impossible to accomplish.

So...back to installing the brass sleeve in an ancient boat?? If ypou have a nice sharp rat tail file and lots of patience and are willing to bang your knuckles a few times...you can easily open up the hole enough to acomodae the brass fitting.

Unfortunatly, the brass fitting has splines that are designed to dig into the walls of the hole and to keep the fitting from twisting. Your ancient fiberglass may shatter much further fromte hole than you would like. In fact, the act of driving the splined portion fo the brass tube into position might be just exactly what it takes to delaminate your 30 year old hull from your 30 year old deck.

My solution?? I would make the hole large enough so the brass tube slides in place without driving it in place. Then smear 5200 all oveer the inside of the hule and more 5200 should be smeared all over the part of the sleeve that will live between the hull and deck. When the sleeve is pushed in place a circle of 5200 should ooze out around the entire 360 of the glange.
Another bead of 5200 should be smeared around the tube before shoving the washer in place. When the washer is shoved on the tube another circle of 5200 should ooze around it. Then turn the nut on to the sleeve until it is as tight as you can get it with your fingers.
Use a wrench or pliers to tighten the nut just a little further and then let the entire mess cure.
Your new brass sleeve reinforced hull deck joint should be slightly stronger than the original hull deck joint.
 
I know I'm coming in late but what is 5200? And who makes it? The same goes for " McLube". Any help would be appreciated. And where can you buy them too?
Fred:confused:
 
5200 is adhesive made by 3m
can be bought at your local west marine, or for that matter, some hardware stores.
be careful... when 5200 sets up, it is forever.
if you think you might want to remove whatever, use 4200 or silicone.

mclube is a dry-lube in a can that is very slippery without attracting dust or dirt.
 
roshambo said:
be careful... when 5200 sets up, it is forever.
.
Click to expand...

I wish. I've glued the rubrail on twice and it's coming off yet again on the bow. It's solid on most of the rest of the boat.
 
good point...
rubrail or soft things stand a chance of coming apart.
but... put two piecies of fibergass together with 5200...
very strong stuff
i very nearly ruined a seahood on a j22 by gluing then screwing the thing down with 5200.
had to take the hood off to add new cleats & then i was cussing myself trying to get the thing off without destroying it.

cheers
 
gouvernail said:
....

My solution?? I would make the hole large enough so the brass tube slides in place without driving it in place. Then smear 5200 all oveer the inside of the hule and more 5200 should be smeared all over the part of the sleeve that will live between the hull and deck. When the sleeve is pushed in place a circle of 5200 should ooze out around the entire 360 of the glange.
Another bead of 5200 should be smeared around the tube before shoving the washer in place. When the washer is shoved on the tube another circle of 5200 should ooze around it. Then turn the nut on to the sleeve until it is as tight as you can get it with your fingers.
Use a wrench or pliers to tighten the nut just a little further and then let the entire mess cure.
Your new brass sleeve reinforced hull deck joint should be slightly stronger than the original hull deck joint.
Click to expand...

Thanks for shharing the depth of your experience... When I bought the boat there was simply a rubber stopper shoved in the fiberglass hole. After installing the bailer, there is a rubber stopper shoved in the fiberglass hole.

I think that for this boat I am going to let it be. The fiberglass/rubber stopper solution has worked for 30 years, I could only be so lucky that my engineering skills could last as long. I'm going to leave the brass fitting out of it unless there is a problem.

gouvernail, you seem to know quite alot about the lasr class, is there any way to pinpoint the exact year of laser hull 1769? The best info I can find says it's between '71-'73... do you or anyone know how to found out which of these three?
 
roshambo said:
good point...
rubrail or soft things stand a chance of coming apart.
but... put two piecies of fibergass together with 5200...
very strong stuff
i very nearly ruined a seahood on a j22 by gluing then screwing the thing down with 5200.
had to take the hood off to add new cleats & then i was cussing myself trying to get the thing off without destroying it.

cheers
Click to expand...


I had the same problem on a different boat - I only use 4200 now.

The trick I used to remove the seahood was to get some strong guitar strings wrap each end around some chopsticks and slowly work back and forth under the seahood - a sawing motion. The guitar strings cut the 5200. I guess strong fishing line would work as well. Use the same idea to cut PVC pipe when plumbing in akward areas.
 
To bring us back to the refinishing. I have a 1973 Laser with Mahogany center board and rutter. I saved myself days of sanding with the purchase of a stripping dryer (like a hair dryer), and soft puddy knife. The original finishes came right of with no damages to the wood.

I know, I know sanding for weeks on end really makes you get to know your centerboard and rutter, but...thought you might like the extra time to sail.
 
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