Please help - outboard motor mount

Discussion in 'Capri/Catalina 14 Talk' started by cjdavia, Jun 26, 2005.

  1. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    I saved up some pennies and finally purchased the 2HP 4 stroke Honda outboard. This just might save my marriage! :)

    Can anyone out there recommend a good way to mount it? I am at witt's end!

    I currently have the motor clamped onto the reinforced transom, but the traveller and blocks hit the motor and get stuck on it when the boom comes about. In order to clear the traveller, it seems like the motor should be mounted about 5 inches back. I've seen the stationary and the recommended adjustable motor mounts, and I think they can fix this issue.

    But mounting the motor further back poses another problem - the motor should be able to lift up to nearly parallel, allowing me to safely trailer into the water and raise the prop when under sail. However if I do mount it 5 inches behind the transom, I can't raise the prop because the head of the motor will hit the transom before it locks into place and STILL be in the way of the traveller. AARGH

    Can anyone out there help me? For those of you with adjustable brackets, how far back does it place the motor, and does it allow the prop to be rasied high enough for trailering and saling? PLEASE help! Thanks, Chris
     
  2. Reyher

    Reyher New Member

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    I'll try to help you!

    Chris, I just bought a two year old Mod 3 and a new short shaft 2HP Honda 4 Stroke mounted on a factory installed motor mount that is on the port side of the transom. This configuration works quite well. I experience no problems with it interfering with the traveler or tilting the motor up to the maximum
    That being said, I am pretty sure that the factory mount is available from Catalina or perhaps Catalina Direct. I have seen a price quoted some where recently of less than $100. I have needed and used adjustable motor mounts on other boats with a lot of freeboard and I'm not sure that is the best solution in this case. I like to keep things as simple a possible. However, once you clear this little problem,(and you will) you are going to love your motor. Spending the extra bucks is well worth the benefits you will enjoy. I am happy to email you pictures, measurement, try to answer questions, etc. if you are interested. Just let me know! :)
    Chris Reyher
     
  3. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    Help is good

    Hi Chris,

    I didn't realize the newer 14.2s come with a motor mount, boy that would be nice right now.

    Of course, just minutes before your post I wound up winning a new adjustable motor mount on ebay... just my luck. I agree that simpler is better but I could not figure out a way to raise the prop without the head of the motor hitting the transom so I was hoping that the adjustable mount could take care of the raising and lowering. Hopefully we can make it work, or I'll put it back up on ebay. I did find an adjustable motor mount at catalinadirect, but I think the mount was for the 22 ft model.

    Thanks for your generous offer to help, I am going to take you up on it and make you sorry for offering. I hate to dump all of my research on you, but could you please tell me how far back your mount sits from the transom and also let me know how far down it is from the top of the transom? A picture of your motor and mount when raised would be VERY helpful. I think you can include a picture on your forum post, but if you like you could send it to my email address: cjdavia@hotmail.com

    Hey on a separate note I have another question -- do you think the motor is sort of loud? I was under the impression that the 4 strokes were supposed to be very quiet, but I feel like this one is pretty noisy. My wife and I have to talk really loudly to be heard... at least now it is not about the 'best' way to get back to the dock!

    Thanks again and hopefully some day I can return the favor. I'll do my best not to ask much more of you!

    -Chris Davia
     
  4. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    My old mod 1 does not have a reinforced transom

    The more I learn, the more confusing this project becomes. First the good news: I called Catalina Direct and they do sell a mounting bracket for the 14.2, just like Chris mentionned. They haven't sold one in over 10 years but they do have one in stock. According to the sales rep., the bracket sets the motor about 10-12 inches behind the transom, just like the adjustable bracket I purchased last night.
    Now the not-so-good news: My catalina is one of the first off the production line (sail number 253), and it does not have any reinforcement on either side of the transom. It is hollow on both sides.
    Clamping the motor over the top of the transom seems ok to me, but now I am thinking that installing a 29 lb motor 10-12 inches behind the transom is going to cause too much stress where the mounting bolts go through the transom. I am wondering if reinforcing the bracket with wood on either side of the transom will provide enough strength. I wish I had an answer for this before I start drilling holes through my baby.
    Does anyone have an ideas for me? :confused:

    Thanks so much, I need a beer!
    -Chris Davia
     
  5. bets

    bets Guest

    short shaft?

    I am confused. In the FAQ's it states that the 2 hp LONG shaft Honda is the best. And yet here I see that you got a short shaft? Is that the 15" shaft not the 20 - and it works OK?

    Thanks
     
  6. Reyher

    Reyher New Member

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    Pictures of the Honda 2HP 4S on Catalina Mount

    If I did this right, here are four pictures that I hope will help you. This is a short shaft motor (I'm guessing that yours is too) and with me in it (230lbs) the antiventilation plate is about two inches below the water surface and is much louder than if it were deeper. There are obvious advantages to having the short shaft model, but the trade-off is noise. No longer than I need to use it, noise is not a problem for me. Honda recommends that the anti-ventilation plate be 5.9 inches below the surface. I believe that is for optimum quietness. If it is too high you will get ventilation or some folks call it cavitation. That is when the prop literally sucks the water down from the surface in a vortex and leaves a void of nothing but air. Then you get a lot of noise and loss of thrust. This is a major issue with water cooled motors, because the water inlet can be left high and dry. The 2HP Honda is air cooled as you know.
    If you have questions let me know. I am happy to help!
    chris...
     

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  7. Reyher

    Reyher New Member

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    Yep, works great! No problems. If "works best" means quieter, then I can't argue that point. (See my previous post.) Besides, I'm a little hard of hearing anyway! :D
     
  8. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    Chris,
    Thanks a TON for your help. I see now that I don't need a long 12" mount, this would only add unnecessary pressure to the transom. I like the wide stance of your stationary mount too.
    Now I only wish for some comfort that this could work for my old boat with a transom that is not internally reinforced. I wonder if bolting some oak pieces of wood on either side will suffice.
    Thanks again, if you ever wind up in Atlanta give me a shout and drinks will be on me... this goes for anyone else that can give me info about mounting a motor on a mod1!

    PS. I can't believe how clean your boat and garage are. Good work!
    -Chris Davia
     
  9. Terraplane

    Terraplane New Member

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    We installed the same motor mount in the above photos but flipped the brackets so they bolted towards the center, not outer edge of the transom. This made it easier to mount farther to the side, out of the way of the rudder.
    l_ _l not this- _l l_
    ---------
    transom

    The outer bolts would need to be inside the seat otherwise or the mount would need to be closer to the center. I have a 3.5 hp Tohatsu (way too much power!) and don't think it will cause any problems with the transom. My hull is #1267 but is solid on the port side. I do notice that the propeller is dragging in the water slightly if I'm not careful about staying forward while under sail. I would suggest mounting it as high as possible on the transom for that reason. I have a long shaft model and the short shaft units might not do that. Good luck!

    Paul
     
  10. Reyher

    Reyher New Member

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    Wow Chris! You just continue to run into challenges! I did a little research over on the C-25 forum a while back on reinforcing transoms. My old C-25's transom tended to "oil can" or flex. It never gave me a real problem and I sold it before I had a chance to pull it out of the water and fix it. The suggestion I found on the C-25 forum was to use 1/2" Starboard. Starboard is the white plastic-like lumber that works with wood working tools. Its available at West Marine. Laminate a piece where you intend to mount the motor on either the inside or outside of your transom (or both, perhaps) and cement it with 3-M #4200 adhesive or LifeCaulk. I would cover the transom well beyond where you plan to install the bolts and spread the adhesive completely over the surface of the Starboard to help prevent any possibility of crushing your hollow transom. Clamp it snugly while the adhesive is drying. No more than the motor weighs, that should do the trick. I'm sure there are other ideas out there, but that's what I'd do.
    Now....go have that beer!!!
     
  11. cfos

    cfos New Member

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    Trolling motor blues

    You folks have good advice. I just bought a Garelick Stationary Outboard motor bracket for my little Minn Kota trolling motor because iit gets fouled with the traveler when mounted on the transom. Garelick recommends a backing board if the transom is less than 2 inches thick. Of course that assumes a heavy outboard motor.

    Now the bad news. With the trolling motor you definitely still steer with the rudder. Therefore the motor has to go to the outside to clear. The Garelick brackets are too big for the lower bolts to come in above the seat so it's back to West Marine to return this birthday present. Guess I"ll have to be less lazy and lift the electric motor off the floor when I decide to use it and rig the oak protectors as described in the FAQ of this site. any other ideas??

    My final comment is that I like using the troller. It keeps my time on the lake (Columbus, Ohio) quiet.

    Craig Foster
     
  12. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    Stationary motor bracket

    Cfos,

    I'm having a same problem with my adjustable bracket - the mounting holes will require me to somehow install the lower bolts under the seat.

    To fix this I am thinking about mounting the motor bracket to an oversized piece of stainless steel (or wood). Then I'd drill custom mounting holes in the steel to allow me to bolt it down in a location that does not interfere with the seat.

    Unfortunately I think my adjustable bracket is too heavy and long for my transom so I am thinking of doing this with a stationary Garelick bracket like the one you have.

    I am wondering if we will have the same problem with the factory mount from catalina direct. Chris Reyher, does it look like the lower mounting bolts of your bracket come in above the seat?

    -Chris
     
  13. Reyher

    Reyher New Member

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    Factory Mount

    Here's a photo of the bolts shown from forward of the transom:

    Photo is not showing up.... This forum data base is soooo unstable this morning. I think the server it resides on needs some help....

    Anyway, the lower bolts are above the level of the seat.
     

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  14. cfos

    cfos New Member

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    A Homemade Idea

    Thank you for the replies. Your mount is definitely different than the Garelick. Those brackets are least 6 inches between the holes. I'm goiung to try and attach a concept drawing of what I mioght do with oak or another appropriate wood. The Minn Kota is so light, This should be strong enough. I'm not sure about an outboard.
    I'm getting some advice from my brothers who are boaters and know woodworking better.

    This is my first attempt to attach here, so pardon any errors.

    Craig
     

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  15. Reyher

    Reyher New Member

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    Here's an Idea!

    Chris and Craig!
    If you are concerned about accessing the lower portside mounting bolt, have you thought about using a 4" Screw-In Deck Plate? They are ABS plastic and come in white or black in 4,6 and 8 inch diameters. Place it in the side of the seat near the transom. This would allow you to get your hand and a wrench inside the seat to access the bolt. Add a deck plate storage bag to it and you will have a nifty, waterproof and secure place to put your keys, phone, GPS, wallet, etc. They are shown on page 567 of the 2005 West Marine Master Catalog or you may be able to see it at their website. The part numbers are: Deck Plate -103598, Storage Bag - 6848956. I have installed one, sans bag, in my old Catalina 25 (to access upper gudgeon bolts) and it was very easy to install. Be sure to use a Silicone sealant. I have seen them used as a stash on kayaks as well. Bullet proof! :cool:
     
  16. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    Homemade mounting bracket

    Cfos,

    I like what you are thinking, and I have been thinking about something similar. However, since my transom is hollow, instead of bolting the back mounting plate directly to the transom I was thinking that we could build the mounting plate all the way up the transom, horizontally across the top of the transom, and then down the inside of the transom. We could install adjustable/sliding brackets between the horizontal top part and the inside vertical part secured with wing nuts so the inside piece clamps securely on the transom.

    On a different theme, I am also thinking about taking Chris' advice and installing that deck plate in the aft part of the seat. A 4" circle may give me just enough room to squeeze some reinforcing wood inside the transom allowing me to bolt on my bracket. Fun stuff. I wish I could stop thinking about this and just get to the water!

    -Chris
     
  17. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    4" deck plate

    Chris R,

    I am seriously considering the deck plate. It will help me reinforce the area inside the transom and get at the mounting bolts, but I have a question: do you know if the deck plates are a little plyable?

    The area I wish to mount it -- vertically under the seat by the transom -- is not perfectly flat. Unfortunately it is slightly curved (about 1/8-3/16 inch). Have you experienced this type of installation in the past and do you think I can pull it off?

    Thanks,
    Chris
     
  18. Reyher

    Reyher New Member

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    That's a tough one!

    Yes it's a bit pliable alright, BUT, since the cover screws into the ring that is mounted on the surface, it's not going to go in without a real struggle if it goes in at all. There is an "O" ring seal recessed in the ABS ring itself that needs to be considered as well.

    There is a model that has a "pry off" cover that might work, however it would not be as secure, IMHO.

    You might try to get your hands on one to test the flexibility. Those on kayaks (although not exactly the same but very flexible) pry off and they are water proof. If you are aware of any Kayak accessory dealers in your area, you might give them a call. Heck, you can probably find one on the internet!

    Another option would be to find some material that would serve as a thick gasket that would absorb the uneven surface, leaving the deck plate ring flat. Silicone sealant might work.
     
  19. cjdavia

    cjdavia Member

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    There is the right way, and then my way

    Well, I spoke with a couple of fiberglass repairmen, and they pretty much agree that the 'right' way to get my outboard mounted is to cut open the transom, reinforce the inside of transom with marine plywood, fiberglassed in place with cloth and a thick epoxy/glass mixture. Then patch it back up, seal it, and repaint it... Total cost: around 600$. This hurts, especially when I only payed $1K for the boat and trailer.

    So I've made the executive decision to mount this thing as best I can without cutting open the transom. If the fiberglass happens to crack sometime in the future, then I'll go ahead and do the extensive transom work. So here is what I am proposing to do:

    Custom cut, stain/seal, adhere, and caulk 3/4" marine plywood to both sides of the transom. Make these pieces as long as possible to distribute the weight.

    Drill 2 new holes for the lower mounting bolts in my garelick adjustable stationary mounting bracket (#71075), about 2 inches higher than the existing ones. I'll use these instead of the bottom 2 holes, allowing me to bolt the bracket right through the reinforced transom without needing to cut an access hole under the seat. I hope that since the bracket is strong enough to support a heavy 15HP motor -- and my motor is only 2HP, I can get away with moving those lower mounting bolts up 2 inches without causing any trouble.

    So now my worry is that the entire 30 pounds of the motor is being supported by 2 pieces of fiberglass, sandwiched between 2 pieces of plywood. I don't think this is as secure as clamping the motor over the top of the transom......

    Here is where I had a pretty good brainfart -- If I could attach a strap or piece of flexible aluminum to both sides of the upper mounting bolts, across the top of the transom, then some of the motor's weight could be distributed to the top of the transom, similar to what was happenning when I hang the motor over the transom and secure it using c-brackets.

    This seems a bit hokey but the straps will allow some of the weight to hang over the top of the transom while still being supported by the mounting bolts, bolted through the transom.

    Do you think this could work and what could I potentially use for those hanging straps?

    -Chris
     
  20. cfos

    cfos New Member

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    I get it!

    Chris,
    I said "well, duh" to myself when you mention making new holes in the bracket. Since I am for below the design weight as well, I do not forsee a problem. I did check and my Mod I is hollow, at least it seems that way.

    Thanks for the suggestion,
    Craig
     

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