Original '74 Holt Vang

[polyacanthus]

I have a 1974 with original vang which doesn't seem to do much, the rope doesn't want to stay cleated. It's like the rope is actually too fat. Should I simply replace the rope with something a little smaller in diameter or am I crazy? Would I need something special or just the nicest quality stuff the local power boat shop has?

TIA!

2016-07-12_04-57-51
2016-07-12_04-58-06

 

[LaLi]

You mean you have a 10 mm vang line? How does it even fit?

The best line for the old Holt Allen (or just "Allen", from 2008 on) vang cleat is 5 or 6 mm thick and as stiff as possible.

Are you planning to update the system otherwise?

 

[polyacanthus]

I just assumed it was original from the looks of it, maybe not. I don't plan on upgrading it any time soon, I'm not racing it.

2016-07-12_05-38-07

 

[LaLi]

2016-07-12_05-38-07

That's a nice double-braid splice! Not original.

Even if you're not upgrading it otherwise, you might want to buy enough rope that you can make it a 4:1, using the becket pin of the boom block as a turning point.

Your cleat block swivels, doesn't it?

 

[polyacanthus]

Your cleat block swivels, doesn't it?

I don't know what you mean. In what way?

 

[LaLi]

I take that as a no.
If you ever think of upgrading the vang in any way, the first thing is to put something like this between the cleat block and the mast tang: Swivel 5mm Fork & Eye | Shackles and Fittings | Hardware | Chandlery
Changes vang adjustment from nearly impossible to manageable.

 

[polyacanthus]

I see what you mean, so you can pull toward yourself to cleat it instead of down, making it less awkward to adjust when the boom is off to the side, correct?

 

[polyacanthus]

Related question, what is the proper size rope for the rudder downhaul? Someone replaced mine with bungee cord.

 

[LaLi]

Question in post #7: yes.
Question in post #8: 3 mm. 4 mm is ok but it's harder to make a knot small enough that fits in the hole in the blade.

 

[polyacanthus]

Great, thanks for the tips!

 

[seemlessstate]

I did this modification to my old holt vang. (I stole these pics from another thread but it's essentially the same thing).

It works surprisingly well, has the same purchase as the new XD kits, and costs less than $50 with the lines. Since your boat doesn't have the new deck blocks, you can use the original fair lead and jam cleat. Give it a shot, it's a huge improvement over the 3:1, and even though you aren't racing, it's nice to be able to properly bend the mast and set leech tension.

 

[Riv]

The old "V" jammers work best with ordinary old 3 strand twisted rope the rope seems to sink into the V and jam well. I usually add an extra shackle where the lower block joins the mast to provide a bit of twist. Good swivels are really expensive. Also you can add a single block on the rope before the jammer and make it 6:1 really easily

 

[LaLi]

The old "V" jammers work best with ordinary old 3 strand twisted rope the rope seems to sink into the V and jam well.

That's exactly the most usual problem with the Allen A.165LZ (that's the fitting we're talking about): the line sinks in and jams so that it's very hard to uncleat. The block is made of two cast-aluminium halves, so the "V" opening of the cleat is actually more like a "Y". If the line is too thin (less than 5 mm) and/or too soft, it can get stuck quite badly. For the same reason, I wouldn't recommend using three-strand rope here.

(It's really the opposite to the original poster's problem, which I didn't realize could even exist.)

I usually add an extra shackle where the lower block joins the mast to provide a bit of twist.

That's totally useless. You really want the block to turn through more than 180 degrees.

Good swivels are really expensive.

The one I linked to in post #6 costs 15 dollars (CAD). I would call that an exceptionally good cost/benefit ratio.

 

[Riv]

Yes good points.......you are right about the swivels and the turning angle, I was thinking about those really nice Ronstan ones £30+ here in the UK

 

[polyacanthus]

The best line for the old Holt Allen (or just "Allen", from 2008 on) vang cleat is 5 or 6 mm thick and as stiff as possible.

I used a spare piece of 1/4 inch line (6.4mm) this weekend which worked much better. I will have to order some 5mm.

Question in post #8: 3 mm. 4 mm is ok but it's harder to make a knot small enough that fits in the hole in the blade.

Picked up some 1/8 inch (3.2mm) which worked great.

Went out a couple times this weekend and had a blast. Next item to look at is water in the hull. I think the plastic cockpit drain bushing is a good place to start. It looks like I should order a brass fitting to replace and reseal it. Anything I should know or is it pretty self explanatory?

Is it worth removing fittings like the rudder mounts and drain plug in order to reseal them or am I overthinking it?

Also, the boat is a '79 not a '74, oops

PS. I'm not a rope expert but I guess rope I order from a sailing supplier will be much nicer than what's at the local boat store? I know there are many types and materials of ropes, I'm not sure what I need. I'm considering just getting a whole rope kit, it seems like everything on mine has been replaced over time with the wrong size.

 

[LaLi]

I used a spare piece of 1/4 inch line (6.4mm) this weekend which worked much better. I will have to order some 5mm.

6 mm is better than 5, especially if you don't increase the purchase, and/or if the 6 mm isn't very soft.

Is it worth removing fittings like the rudder mounts and drain plug in order to reseal them or am I overthinking it?

You're probably overthinking. If you're going to reseal every single thing, you end up doing a lot of useless work. Try rather to find the places where the water is going in and work on those.

I guess rope I order from a sailing supplier will be much nicer than what's at the local boat store?

Depends on what your local store is selling! But if you don't plan on racing at all or updating the control systems much, then you won't need much more than basic double-braid polyester rope of different diameters.