One fish, two fish ... A sorry, hon! saga

[emilikins]

Okay, so saga is a little dramatic. Hubby and I took up sailing in August and have convinced ourselves that we need our own Sunfish so we're not vying for the two club boats and can sail at lakes closer to our house. Craigslist had not been very promising: one fish that came with the trailer and everything looked in rougher shape than we wanted to mess with, and the other fish did not come with trailers.

So, we have a fellow SF member building us a trailer customized for the Sunfish, "future proofed" to stack a second boat down the road - and fold up for our limited storage needs. He has also offered one of his boats to buy. We are just waiting for our calendar to open up for travel to pick it up.

Well, last weekend we had one of those strange weekends. My mother-in-law's coworker's husband was selling his toys he no longer can use due to a spinal cord injury. He was selling his fully rigged boat + trailer for $400. We took a look, and it seemed in pretty good shape, though it was an AMFlite 14 (ha, we like the molded coaming more than the bolted one, sorry Sunfish). We noted the soft spots in the common area of the bow on older boats (it's the pre-72 rudder system), and a small chip on the stern (above the waterline), but it otherwise seemed in good shape. The sail ... well, it's there. Looks like we have our Christmas present all picked out there!

We get it home (we will sell the trailer) and clean it up & notice uh-ohs that we missed before. The soft spots, now that we are away from the highway noise, have a quiet crackle. You can't see any bubbling or deformation, but I'm pretty sure it's delaminated (the difference for percussion is more evident once you're in the quiet). The boat was easy to pick off the trailer and flip over, so it didn't seem to be leaking, so we were hopeful. I felt sick, since delamination was what I had hoped to avoid. But I have Don Casey's book and these forums.

My mind went into overdrive with these scenarios:

1. Since the gear is in good shape and we got an extra set of spars with the boat, we hold onto "Woody" (yeah, it's a working name) until we pick up the custom trailer (trailer #2). If we like the other Sunfish more, we buy it, keep the best parts of both, and sell the rest as a complete package with the Trailer #1. We could break even, plus have spare spars.
2. We keep Woody and just sell Trailer #1 once we have Trailer #2, and give it some TLC this winter & get a couple of years out of it.
3. We wind up with two boats, sell Trailer #1 (I think we could get $200 for it).

It sucked having almost instant buyer's remorse and kicking myself that I managed to get seduced by the gelcoat in great shape, wooden coaming, and playing the what if game. What if we turned this boat down for the soft spots and then did not like boat #2, which we know has soft spots in the usual area and some hairline cracks in the cockpit (that may or may not be an issue), and this was the only good deal to come around? Despite all my reading, it was still a newbie fail.

Hubby was more bummed that I was bummed rather than being excited we got our first boat!

So, we had to go sailing.

Well, we tried to go sailing. It was a low wind day, but there is a small, concrete plant lake a mile from our house. It's rocky shore has one spot for launching on a boat ramp, which happened to be in a cove that was also disgustingly algae infested. Remember Slimer?

A series of unfortunate events (our fault, not the boat's) wound up with me and the boat covered in green goo. On the bright side, the boat definitely floats! Downside? She felt heavier when we put her back on the trailer as well as when we unloaded her for a good scrubbing down. So, she's probably leaking somewhere.

I think I drove my husband insane with my anxiety after that. Now we've been waiting for good wind (and inspection ports to come in) to test her on the club lake, but I worry about water sloshing around in there. I can't hear any, but I'm sure if water came in at sloshing rates I'd definitely know where it was coming from. I'm hoping I was just tired and exhausted and that's why the boat felt heavier. I really want to try and open the drain plug by the coaming and flip her, but since we're trying to sail tomorrow (omg, there's wind!!!!), I'd hate to break it and then have to wait for a replacement.

I think the hubby is pretty set on making do with this boat, though open to scenario 1 up above. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Though if we do decide to sell it, we are definitely drying it out and fixing any leaks if it's wet inside. Anything we get will be an older boat and not in perfect shape. We just want it to sail well, doesn't need to race. But I'd hate to have a problem boat sully our sailing just as we start out (though that would be good repair experience!).

How crazy is it to get both boats? Or do scenario #1? I know I've complicated what would've been a simple scenario: Buy Boat & Trailer #2 as planned, not get mixed up in two boats and trailers when we already have a storage issue and tight budget. But while we sail well together in one boat (we're jockey size), I think we would also get a kick of "racing" each other in separate boats. Of course, we can always do that with a club boat and our own boat, but we are limited to just that lake.

Btw, owning your own boat, we found with one trip under our belt, is a heck of a lot harder than just going to the club and rolling one down to the beach on a dolly. But I do think it will be more rewarding. And we can't keep a horse, so I guess this will be my water pony.

 

[minifish2]

I wouldn't stress at all. It looks like you got a nice boat and trailer at a good price. Worst case, you could sell that trailer for maybe half your overall purchase price or more and you will have a boat (another boat, if I followed that correctly) that you can enjoy. I think you did fine. Talking about new used boats, I wouldn't worry too much about it all. I sail and enjoy boats with a whole lot more cosmetic -and real - problems than that one.

[Now I'm not suggesting you do this, at all, but it occurs to me that if one wanted to cure oneself of that buyer's remorse, pronto, one might do something nefarious like posting those three pictures on Craigslist with the heading 'first $600 takes it, with trailer' and watch the responses. Again, I wouldn't suggest that - but if it helps erase doubts..] You did fine, and the boat looks nice.

I'd open that side drain and try to get the water out. Worst case there, if you mess it up really bad somehow you can just put a square of duct tape over the drain hole temporarily and still go sailing. But you probably want to get any water out. I'd start looking for that possible leak, too. As to the hull, hull softness, etc, I'm not a fan of trailering like that - if it were mine I'd rearrange the traIler bunks and flip it over. If there really are hull issues or some kind of delamination on the hull bottom, I bet that it was more likely a result of trailering like that than any on-the-water stress. But that's perhaps quibling.

So which boat will you sail?

 

[emilikins]

If we sell, I think we'll just try to make it a wash (sell for $400), but keep the extra set of spars that came with it. We don't know if it's leaking for sure, but I suspect it (or I'm paranoid). Got 2 ports ordered and I think we'll take a crack at the plug this week. It's the old one with 2 pins. I don't think it's ever been touched.

We suspect the flex/delamination on the deck might be from overzealous tightening of the trailer straps. The trailer that's being built will be the cradles running the other way (and top bracket will be deck down, bottom rack deck up with plushy carpet). The only spot with flex on the bottom of the hull might be from a foam block coming loose (hubby's theory), though it could be from impact, leak, delamination, etc.

So which boat will you sail?

Oh ho, hmm. I'll probably take boat #2, but who knows? We just had another chat about the boats, and although we acknowledge that we really won't know about #2 until we see it in person (we have a ton of up close pics), that buying it wouldn't be a huge deal. We have a winter storage solution for two boats, though it's a bit of a trek to get there (parents' cabin), so we don't have to rush into a keep or sell decision. And there might be some merit to having one boat to try out repairs on. Not that we want a Frankenboat ... I think buying boat #2 and selling boat #1 is our back pocket plan. Though we will dry it out and fix leaks if we find them, or dry out and disclose where the leak is. It IS a pretty boat, and the gelcoat is in the best shape we've seen out of all the boats we've looked at. I could be a fretter (as my babble can attest to).

 

[L&VW]

We get it home...and clean it up & notice uh-ohs that we missed before. The soft spots, now that we are away from the highway noise, have a quiet crackle. You can't see any bubbling or deformation, but I'm pretty sure it's delaminated (the difference for percussion is more evident once you're in the quiet).

I'm not sure that the crackle you're hearing is delamination. I've got two Sunfish and a Porpoise-II, and as "experienced" as they are, I can't say I've heard—or seen—delamination in any of them. These boats are pretty tough. After your sail, any boat you'd be lifting will feel heavier.

Everything else you've described seems to add up to a good find; that said, there's a host of sailing skill advantages in having two boats.

I could be a fretter (as my babble can attest to).

I think you've nailed it.

 

[emilikins]

I'm not sure that the crackle you're hearing is delamination.

When you tap it, it's hollow. Then when you push down on it, it crackles. From what I've read, both of those clues together usually signify delamination. I could be wrong. Since I've never had someone in real life point to a definitive case of delamination, just what I've read and a couple of videos online.

 

[L&VW]

Could the "crackle sound" be from slightly crushing the surface of the structural styrofoam blocks? They'd be "tender" after all these years.

A boat that is otherwise sound is still perfectly good for recreational sailing.

 

[emilikins]

That could be, LVW. I'm new to this & haven't had an IRL example of delamination to compare against.

We're a week away from picking up our trailer and seeing the other boat. We've decided if we like the other boat more than this one, we'll buy it and sell the other. If it seems on par with our current boat, we'll just let it be. Frost came 3 weeks early, so we haven't had a chance to sail beyond the slime day. So we made up for it by scoping all the lakes nearby, so if we squeeze out a couple of warm days, we can put in quick after work.

 

[emilikins]

We've got twins! Fraternal, not identical ... Now we've got 2 boats and 2 trailers.

The current plan is to work on both through the winter, spruce up the older boat trailer, clean up some scratches on the AMFlite (the cream deck), fix some chips, and sell it with the trailer in the spring. We might make a profit - or at least come out even. After seeing the blue Sunfish, we feel better about AMFlite's soft spots. I think they are just signs of age. However, there's no crackle of foam or delamination on the blue boat when you push on its flexy spots. Both boats will get inspection ports and we'll fix any leaks we find. Through working on both boats, we'll find out probably which one we want to keep more and make our decision then. At least then we won't be playing the wondering game, which got us into this pickle in the first place. Luckily, we have a temporary storage solution for the older trailer over winter.

Blue Sunfish - good sail, we know it sails well (it's been out this summer a few times), and the spider cracks in the cockpit seem to be fine (which is what made me nervous and jump on the other boat in the first place) Has some soft spots up on the bow, but the sides where you sit are firm. Spars have been repaired and have a bend, but we've got a spar set to use and can have those as a spare. Had a rough ride home on some Nebraska roads, hope we didn't damage it or shorten its life!

AMFlite 14 - Spars, mast, hardware all in good shape. Sail is ... meh. Has some impact cracks, couple of chips, and makes a crackly sound when you push on some of the soft spots (but it could be the foam as pointed out). We loooove the molded and wood-trimmed coaming on it (it seduced us, I'll admit it). Has been on the boat trailer, which rides better, but we had a difficult time launching it off the trailer and might have stressed the hull (which does have a slightly soft spot).

This is not how to buy your first boat when you have extremely limited storage. It IS, however, a way to have quite the adventure, make your friends & family dizzy trying to explain how this happened (I'm crazy would suffice, I guess), and it's going to give us a ton of practice since both boats need different things. We just need to be careful we don't sink a ton of money into these projects!

 

[Pat75]

You two must be having a great time! My wife won't sail :,( But, I was thinking about you two making these decisions and also wanting to race each other. If you don't have identical boats, you will always have the issue of one boat being faster than the other and who gets "stuck" with the slow one on race day etc. I don't know the difference between an AMFlite and a Sunfish, but I imagine they are not exactly the same. Also, if you two decide to join the U.S. Sunfish Class Association, get numbers for your sails and race with other people - you will both need sunfish. Just a thought. However, that sail that you have with the AMFlite is my all time favorite, and I've considered paying more for a cheap copy of it (because it is no longer produced) than you payed for the whole boat with trailer. You got a good deal.

Good Luck and have fun!