Waiting for the invitation...Valencia. 11 to 15 March.
Valencia to host One Person Dinghy sea-trials
Anybody going? I'm certainly considering
_
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Waiting for the invitation...Valencia. 11 to 15 March.
Valencia to host One Person Dinghy sea-trials
Anybody going? I'm certainly considering
_
It is interesting that according to the WS announcements, all three of the new boats competing to replace the Laser are "presented" by their builder, whereas the Laser is being "presented" by ILCA. Is that because Laser has three builders that do not get along, or because no one trusts the biggest builder to handle the trials correctly?
Haven't seen anything to really comment on. WS only says that a "report" will be made for the mid-year (May) meeting: Four dinghies put through their paces in Valenciathe sea trials are over... any news on the outcome?
We're talking about the monopoly within the Laser class. Or rather, it's a set of regional monopolies, but the individual consumer is limited to one choice nevertheless. I have personally tried buying certain Australian parts (which at the time were fundamentally different to the European counterparts) and was refused!
Of course there are alternatives to the Laser... and WS is now taking a good look at a few of those.
Does anyone here have any experience with the "official alternatives"? Tillerman...? (He doesn't even sail a proper course anymore as he's become an aerobian.)
_
That's how the dealer system works - it's in their contract with the builder. I believe that our former national dealer would have wanted to sell stuff at lowered prices at times, but the fixed prices are de facto required, which was a major reason for their quitting the dealership.Dutch dealer Sailcenter has been working with fixed prices for years and doesn't allow new 'players on the market' to sell ILCA approved gear for a better price.
I’ve always had mixed feelings about the Laser as an Olympic class. I did lend my name to the petition that circulated earlier this year for it to continue as an Olympic class, but with reservations. Achieving Olympic status is a bit like having a tiger by the tail, and I was afraid that losing that status at this time would be too much of a blow. That said, I’m not sure being an Olympic class is good for the long term health of the class.Thanks! Does not sound good for an Aug 1 solution..... RS might want to start looking into ramping up production....
I’ve always had mixed feelings about the Laser as an Olympic class. I did lend my name to the petition that circulated earlier this year for it to continue as an Olympic class, but with reservations. Achieving Olympic status is a bit like having a tiger by the tail, and I was afraid that losing that status at this time would be too much of a blow. That said, I’m not sure being an Olympic class is good for the long term health of the class.
I don't agree. 'Racing improves the breed' is a saying by the founder of Honda. And he was right. A Laser is built for racing and competition. It appeals to men and women alike who want to be the best, the fastest, the one who makes no mistakes. Without a small, dedicated bunch of 'warriors', the class will ultimately die down in mellow-ness and -what we call in Dutch- 'navel-gazing'.
When the Laser is no longer an Olympic class, no young sailor, coming from the Optimist will choose a Laser as his/her next boat. Within 5 yrs, there will be no more 'young blood'. Example: the Dutch Yachting Association ditched the 420 in 2012 and appointed the RS Feva as the boat for the route to a double-handed Olympic medal. 7 years later, there are no 420 sailors anymore in the Netherlands. Really: not a single crew is sailing that boat anymore.
Interesting video. Hopefully the link works.....
It's good to emphasise on the class' road to success. But it's not the way towards the Olympics, it is the road after the Olympics. Besides: really big athletes will - given the chance- try to be successful on the Olympics.
Let's turn it around: name me one boat that stayed successful after it's Olympic career! Europe? Elliot? And all the other boats that are named on the street map of Kiel/Schilksee... None of those boats has survived as a big and thriving class.
Well, it depends wholly on how you define "success". Your argument is that a post-Olympic Laser class will be again the same as it was before 1992. Not going to happen... it's a different world now. Dinghy sailing isn't growing anymore, fewer people in their 20s or 30s race just for fun, the Laser isn't something new, exciting and unique, and there will be no Olympic class that the Laser would naturally feed into. The youth would go directly to the RS Aero, and the Laser would become increasingly a masters-only class with no more builders than today, and many sailing nations abandoning it altogether. I wouldn't call that "successful".The Laser does not need the Olympics to be a successful international class.
As I said in some other context recently, practically all former Olympic classes are living a more or less healthy "afterlife", typically in their historically strong geographical areas. (I can elaborate if someone wants.) They just tend to become more old guys' classes, with few new boats built. I don't want the Laser to go that way.name me one boat that stayed successful after it's Olympic career! Europe? Elliot? And all the other boats that are named on the street map of Kiel/Schilksee... None of those boats has survived as a big and thriving class.
Well, it depends wholly on how you define "success". Your argument is that a post-Olympic Laser class will be again the same as it was before 1992. Not going to happen... it's a different world now. Dinghy sailing isn't growing anymore, fewer people in their 20s or 30s race just for fun, the Laser isn't something new, exciting and unique, and there will be no Olympic class that the Laser would naturally feed into. The youth would go directly to the RS Aero, and the Laser would become increasingly a masters-only class with no more builders than today, and many sailing nations abandoning it altogether. I wouldn't call that "successful".
I would start by asking which of the former Olympic classes has a pre Olympic history comparable to the Laser? I’m not 100% certain, but I would guess that none of them were as popular worldwide as the Laser prior to being adopted as an Olympic class. Perhaps losing Olympic status would be the nail in the coffin for the Laser class. This is the tiger by the tail situation that I alluded to earlier. It’s difficult to let go and live to tell about it. But given the unique pre Olympic history of the Laser I’m betting it would be capable of leaving the Olympics and continuing as a popular international class. HOW it could do that is perhaps a topic for another thread. Maybe a thread started after August 1 entitled “Life After the Divorce” I do like the Star and the SSL, and It remains to be seen what will happen with the Finn. But again all of these former Olympic classes did not have the unique pre Olympic history of the Laser. If it does turn out to be true that no fleet can leave the Olympics and live to tell about it then it should serve as a cautionary tale against going that route to begin with.It's good to emphasise on the class' road to success like you do. And you're right when it comes to the Laser's history. But it's not the way towards the Olympics, it is the road after the Olympics that counts. Besides: really big athletes will - given the chance- try to be successful on the Olympics.
Let's turn it around: name me one boat that stayed successful after it's Olympic career! Europe? Elliot? And all the other boats that are named on the street map of Kiel/Schilksee... None of those boats has survived as a big and thriving class.
M
Well, it depends wholly on how you define "success". Your argument is that a post-Olympic Laser class will be again the same as it was before 1992. Not going to happen... it's a different world now. Dinghy sailing isn't growing anymore, fewer people in their 20s or 30s race just for fun, the Laser isn't something new, exciting and unique, and there will be no Olympic class that the Laser would naturally feed into. The youth would go directly to the RS Aero, and the Laser would become increasingly a masters-only class with no more builders than today, and many sailing nations abandoning it altogether. I wouldn't call that "successful".
Good points all, of course. The first is the hardest, and very few classes are actually growing at this time. That's one of the reasons I listed for "not going to happen". One more is that, for better or worse, sailing today is more Olympic-oriented than 30 years ago. The sport is better organized, and the Laser is at the centre of practically all youth-to-Olympics programs around the world. Removed from that framework, what is left is a big and well-spread, but shrinking and ageing masters class. It's good that Eric Faust mentioned Asia: It's the only part of the world where dinghy sailing is clearly growing, and they haven't invested in the Laser for historical but practical reasons. They'd be the first to leave the class for good.I would define success as:
1. Growing membership
2. Active local fleets that support entry level sailors at the grassroots level.
3. Well attended national and world level regattas.
4. Reliable builders and dealers that work with the class to grow the sport.
4. Class organization that works tirelessly to promote all of the above.
Some of us don’t do Facebook. So I’m not able to read the comments. Are the comments about the vote?Interesting comments on LPE’s Facebook page
LaserPerformance
ILCA CAUGHT SPREADING FAKE NEWS Meeting with EURILCA members, ILCA's Eric Faust makes a number of claims in this video that are false and are questioned by the well-informed European members. But the biggest false claim is that LaserPerformance has refused to negotiate with ILCA. We remind ILCA that at the November 2018 ILCA World Council LP requested an all-party meeting to discuss our pending contractual issues in Dusseldorf around 9 January 2019. When LP formally requested ILCA to meet, there was NO REPLY even though we sent a number of reminders. We could have settled our issues then and would not be where we are today, with Eric spinning the story his way to get votes to drop the Laser name. The strategy all along has been to get rid of LP and commercialize ILCA with PSA as a partner.
LASERPERFORMANCE – INTERNATIONAL LASER CLASS ASSOCIATION TRADEMARK LICENSE AGREEMENT SIGNED TODAY
Similar to the document signed by LP and the Sunfish Class, this Agreement is in the form that LP has been asking for in the last 3 years. A big THANK YOU to World Sailing for facilitating the process. We have again invited World Sailing and ILCA to inspect the UK-based Laser Manufacturing facilities. Let’s hope the inspection can happen as soon as possible.
/QUOTE]
From ILCA's Facebook on June 30th:
LCA has entered into a trademark license agreement with Velum Limited, the trademark holding company for Laser Performance. The agreement covers use of the LASER trademark for the conduct of sailing events and for use on various items. This agreement replaces the so-called “1998 Agreement” which Velum erroneously claimed was due to expire in August of this year. In spite of these claims, the 1998 Agreement was set to run in perpetuity.
ILCA has agreed to a new contract as a show of good faith negotiations towards the more important goal of achieving a FRAND compliant policy for our class. While a positive symbol of cooperation, it should be noted that this trademark agreement is not in any way related to the ongoing discussions to remain in the Olympics.
After numerous attempts to negotiate a new trademark agreement over several years, signing a new agreement came only after Laser Performance finally agreed to remove the provisions that would have given away control of our class and disrupted our finances – both of which were unacceptable to the ILCA World Council.
With these conditions removed, the proposed agreement essentially mirrored the agreement ILCA has been prepared to sign since 2016, but had been repeatedly either rejected or ignored by Laser Performance.
For clarity, a new trademark agreement has never been a pre-condition for factory inspections or approval of Laser Performance as a class builder. Re-approval is a completely separate issue that must be negotiated and agreed in coordination with all parties to the Laser Construction Manual Agreement.
ILCA is hopeful that with this issue behind, Laser Performance can now focus on the primary task of reaching agreement with the other commercial parties on a process that will achieve World Sailing’s Olympic Equipment Policy.
/QUOTE]