North vs Hyde Sails & Practice sails

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Rubicon, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. Rubicon

    Rubicon New Member

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    I'm looking at buying a new sail. I think I'll get an official and a practice sail at the same time. So I have a couple of questions, why the difference in price between Hyde and North sails? Is there a difference in quality and also what experiences have people had with ISails and other practice sails.

    I find it ironic that being in Australia I can buy an Official sail from the US shipped here for over $400 dollars cheaper than available here.

    Pleased for any advice.
    Thanks
    Mike
     
  2. Kaiser

    Kaiser Member

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  3. laserxd

    laserxd Member

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    The difference between North and Hyde is price and in your head, neither has a significant advantage over the other, The significant advantage comes from a new sail over a worn out one.

    I have both an intensity and aps practice sail, same price range, both excellent quality and well worth it.

    If you practice with an old sail, you'll get used to sailing with an old draft-aft bag and it will be harder to find the groove when you switch back to your race sail.

    If you practice with your race sail, it will be worn out when you need it most.

    The practice sails give you the feel of a new class sail and will probably actually outlast a class sail since they are made of slightly thicker dacron, you really can't go wrong with a practice sail.
     
  4. Kaiser

    Kaiser Member

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    That's funny... reminds me of my C-15 sails... they are like old threadbare pillowcases, but a new set is over $1200
     
  5. suthera

    suthera Member

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    General consensus in Aus is that Hyde are better than North, and the extra $ you pay are worth it. I don’t think anyone believes that Hyde go faster, but the North ones tend be of worse quality and fall to bits quicker (if you can imagine a laser sail falling to bits “quicker” then they already do!)

    Most guys at the front of the fleet tend to train with regulation sails as well. Replicas tend to trim differently (not saying they are better or worse, just different). Unless you are really on the pace you might not notice this difference, but if you do just use it for when you are training on your own and working on boat handling. Lasers don’t seem to mind what sail they have on when they are being tacked or gybed.

    Getting a cheaper sail from overseas is possible due to the stunning performance of the AUS$ against most other currencies. If you go and buy a new TV you will find it is currently very cheap as the retailers are passing on the savings they make from purchasing cheaper imports. The Laser retailer is not passing on these savings – so go and buy one from overseas and feel guilt free about it. If you get one from the UK they will knock off VAT (GST in AUS) which is 17.5% over there. This more than covers the shipping costs.
     
  6. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Pretty much spot on Suthera on each point, except I don't think PSA would get many sail shipments each year, so the price we pay is related to the price of the sail when PSA ordered them/received them, so their price won't vary much with the value of the dollar over short term, unlike high volume items like TV's.

    There are other reasons why our sales are more expensive. The main one being that PSA orders for sales are a fraction of those from the US/UK and therefore PSA don't receive the same volume discounts that LP does.

    If you are going to import sails directly from overseas, also be aware if you import more than 1 sail per year, you might attract the attention of Customs with the end result that you need to pay import duty on the sails which will add to the cost of the sails. You're effectively limited to $AUS1000 per year on similar products if it's addressed to you (irrespective of the despatch or receival address or if to the same address the persons it sent too).
     
  7. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    In North American the choices are to quit racing or get a sail from somebody who sells sails.
     
  8. Eric_R

    Eric_R D10 Secretary

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    You mention the whole old sail issue, but if the practice sail doesn't trim the same way, what's the point? I always use an older class sail for club and local racing and then use a racing sail for big events. I don't see the change in trim to be that big of a deal.

    Older sails aren't that hard to find and cheap. In fact, there were a few on sale in the for sale section now. Buying legal also gives you the option to race with a that sail rather than using your racing sail.
     
  9. laserxd

    laserxd Member

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    a new practice sail trims much better than an old sail in my opinion, I have plenty of old class sails that I could practice with and I used to practice with, until I finally tried the practice sails. I try to practice in all sailable conditions and I've found the practice sail to be a better substitute.

    Most of the clubs around here don't allow practice sails to be used for local club racing, so I use my practice sails strictly for practicing,

    If I could afford to buy the real for practicing or got a sponsorship I would practice with the real thing but, until then I will use the next best thing.
     
  10. caerbannog

    caerbannog New Member

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    Definitely buy the Intensity for now ...... other than the APS practice sail it may be the only one you can get. My fleet hasn't had a problem with Intensity usage ..... or should I say my performance hasn't made it an issue yet.

    I ordered a North sail back last April and still haven't got it.
    It's becoming apparent that LP isn't paying their bills and thus vendors are
    bailing out leaving existing Laser sailors to suffer by waiting ... endlessly.... for back-ordered "builder supplied parts" ..... such as consumable staples like sails.
    Hyde may be the only folks making new Laser sails now .


    .... but I'm not bitter :cool:
     
  11. laserxd

    laserxd Member

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    It seems like this is becoming a big problem, there is still enough demand that they should be producing products. Maybe the retail end is to blame?
     
  12. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    Training with a North sail and racing with a Hyde, there was a noticeable difference, outside the age of the sails.
     
  13. caerbannog

    caerbannog New Member

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    Heard ya ..... been a big problem. Agreed demand should be there... even late into the northern hemisphere season.
    After a 3 months I began to suspect the retail end too so I called LP direct and received a song and dance ... " oh yeah, we'll have a new shipment of Norths at the end of the month " ... that came and went too. Called a number of "other dealers" ... same story.... "can't get sails outta LP " . Then heard North shut down on them ..... hmmmm.

    Money spent + no sail + 7 months = inexcusable

    Maybe I'll be all set for next spring .... dirtbags

    gettin' bitter now ..... better go
     
  14. vguard296

    vguard296 Member

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    I originally ordered a new sail through LP last February then canceled after the 2 month wait. Turned out my local dealer had a hole stock of new sails so I ended up going threw them instead.
     
  15. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Not true
     
  16. laserxd

    laserxd Member

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    What do you think the difference is and how much does it effect performance? I have only sailed North sails
     
  17. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    The Hyde sail:

    - Felt a lot tighter regarding the sail controls.
    - Held its shape significantly better in heavy breeze.
    - Held its quality for much longer.
    - Did not affect performance other than getting use to sailing with a sail that felt different.
     
  18. sinbadtwo

    sinbadtwo New Member

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    Ordered A new laser sail from Torresan and got an email back saying they wont ship out to Aus anymore due to territory reasons????? not allowed to sell laser parts overseas??
    sounds like a monopoly to me....it was signed jason@totorresen.com
     
  19. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Northing new there.. Look at what happened in South America.

    You just need to find a "friend" in the US and have them ship it to you
     
  20. Sean

    Sean Member

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    I think they are wrong. The rules about selling outside your country were removed over 2 years ago I believe.

    If your in Australia you are better off buying one from the UK anyway as they work out cheaper even with the dollar where it is. I will check that in a minute as I might get one in the next few weeks myself.

    It seems the new sail design has been delayed maybe because of issues with Olympics and ISAF, but who knows, it could be they just want to get rid of all old sails first.

    If the latter, not too good if you buy a new sail only to have the new design be released a few weeks later.

    A timeline of how and when they intend to release the new sail should be published so we know what is happening.
     

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