Newbie Sailor (with kids)

N

nakno

New Member
Hi All,
Apologies if this is the wrong place for this thread, but I am pretty wet behind the ears when it comes to sailing. I am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to sail on some nice big expensive boats (as crew) and am looking at ways in which I can introduce the rest of my family into sailing.

I have a 6 year old son who I'd love to introduce to sailing and was wondering if the laser sail boat was the way to go? There aren't that many for sale second hand (in Sydney) so I am guessing they are a popular boat.

1st Question. How does a Laser handle/perform with 2 people on board (I am 90kg and my kid would be 30kg).

2nd Question. Am I going about it the right way, I mean should I even be looking at a laser to start off with? Is it the wrong boat for a 6 year old to start off with (since Dad is no expert either)?

One of the main reasons for choosing the laser was it's size, I want something I can store in my front driveway (next to the fishing boat) and not have the missus whinge and whine about it!

Thanks in advance
 
Two people of medium build or 1 small/1 large is fine on a laser socially.

The way your suggesting is fine if you're also wanting to learn to sail small boats. You might also want to consider another class of boat where your son can crew for you you eventually want to start racing, Taser, Mirror, Heron etc.

If your primary aim is to get your son interested in sailing but not actually give up your big boat sailing, I'd suggest letting your son do sailing lessons at the local club and get him crewing on some other kids boat (Sabot, Manly Junior etc) until he's got a bit of experience and is old enough for his own boat.
 
Thanks AlanD,

I have looked into Sailing lessons for kids, but most only operate on Saturday mornings. Too many other commitments on Saturday mornings at the moment for both my son and I to have to give up.

The other side of it is that I do want to use the time to spend with my kids too. The other class I was looking at were the small cats. (Hobies to be exact).

cheers
 
My $0.02, I would get the laser vs the Hobie. While I admit that I am a bit biased, I don't like how the Hobies turn like wallowing pigs. Assess what your goals are for sailing... if you just want to get out on a lake and beat around, then maybe the hobie is right for you... if you want to use the skills gained from sailing small dinghy's and apply it to larger boats, then go with the laser.

In terms of the Laser being the right boat for a six year old, I think it is, especially given the fact that you will likely be sailing with him initially, and as such you can help handle the mishaps when they come. In addition, there are two smaller rigs available (radial, 4.7) for those that are not (yet) able to handle the laser full rig by themselves. Right now you are nearing the end of your son's sixth summer... even though the Laser may be a bit too much boat for a six year old solo, you are three summers away from having a 9 year old...
 
This is the right place for this thread.

It's my understanding that Hobies are hard to tack. You'll like the response and feel of the Laser better. Considering my own learning curve with the Laser (wet), I suggest that you take her out a few times on your own before baptising your son.
 
Whilst I have no kids and have never been involved in teaching sailing (i.e. my comment is NOT based on any experience), I think sailing a Laser with a passenger would not be great fun for the passenger. They would have minimal involvement and if you are keen for your son to take to sailing then I would suggest that other two person boats might be better suited. For example, something with a jib would allow your son/crew to be responsible for setting the jib, giving him something to do, something to watch and learn and then start doing un-instructed. something easier for two people to sit in would then allow you to pass him the helm, etc.

Just being a passenger might be fun but once the novelty has worn off then maybe less so. However, something where he can join in, learn, take some responsibility, learn something else, try it, take over and do things, to be part of the crew and be required to get the boat going, etc. is more likely to keep his interest.

Whilst I love my Laser it does not make it the right boat for everything (I have other boats suited to other types of sailing).

Ian
 
I agree with Deimos about comfort in the cockpit being a concern. However I do carry passengers comfortably quite frequently, mostly in the hope that I will hook someone onto sailing... When I do this, I have the windward person trim the main and hike, the leeward person runs the helm. It can make for an interesting changeover on a tack, but if you are carrying a passenger you likely arent worried too much about speed to begin with...
 
Deimos said:
Whilst I have no kids and have never been involved in teaching sailing (i.e. my comment is NOT based on any experience), I think sailing a Laser with a passenger would not be great fun for the passenger. They would have minimal involvement and if you are keen for your son to take to sailing then I would suggest that other two person boats might be better suited. For example, something with a jib would allow your son/crew to be responsible for setting the jib, giving him something to do, something to watch and learn and then start doing un-instructed. something easier for two people to sit in would then allow you to pass him the helm, etc.

Just being a passenger might be fun but once the novelty has worn off then maybe less so. However, something where he can join in, learn, take some responsibility, learn something else, try it, take over and do things, to be part of the crew and be required to get the boat going, etc. is more likely to keep his interest.

Whilst I love my Laser it does not make it the right boat for everything (I have other boats suited to other types of sailing).

Ian
Click to expand...

I don't know. We're talking about a six-year-old here. Being able to go out with Dad on his boat might be enough to outweigh any boredom as a passenger.

He's not old enough now, but I think around age nine would be ideal for starting in an Optimist. Getting a Laser now and sailing around with him would be a good way to ease him into sailing.
 
Thanks all, for helping me here.

Deimos, One thing that is confusing me, I can see some lasers for sale second hand WITH jibs. I was looking at one of these.

Torrid, my kid loves the water so I felt that just having him out there as a passenger would definitely keep him satisfied. Then again, he wouldn't let me sail for too long without wanting to grab hold of the tiller and working out the basics himself.

Speed has not been an issue, but we don't average strong winds in Sydney so I'd like a boat capable of speed.

Lastly, he absolutely loves the water, if we capsize, it'll be nothing but fun for him, in fact I can see him trying to make us capsize himself.

Thanks again everyone.
 
How cold's the water where you sail? You're going to end up *in* it a fair amount.

If that sounds like fun, great you're in there.

If that sounds like cold and an end to the day, consider a more stable boat.
 
Can we assume your son is a good swimmer and comfortable in the water? If so, you shouldn't have any problem.

Another question. What if you wife is watching the two of you sail from the dock and sees the boat capsize? This would be too much for some over-protective mothers.
 
If the Laser has a jib, then it is a Laser II, a different animal. The Laser II also has a trapeze and would be a real blast for any adventurous kid (or Mom). It is more boat to hold down though, and I don't know what the ideal weight is for a Laser II. Anybody?
 
Water temps this time of year is perfect for a swim. Especially if the temp outside is around 100F.

Love life!
 
Zoophyte,

150kg is fine at the moment but in future I would guess that this Laser II is a one person boat only. I wonder how it handles under (say) 10kt winds? with a 125kg (275lbs) load.

Does anyone else out there sail a Laser II or is this site predominantly made up of Laser Sailors?

(Forgive me for asking) but would anyone have a recommendation for another type of small but easy to get going sail craft that might be able to handle two or even three crew (I want to get mum hooked too).
 
There are very few Laser II in Sydney and most of those are 25+ years old, it was never a class that took off in Australia. You probably also need someone with a bit of weight on trapeze if the wind gets above 12 knots.

You're better options in Sydney would be Tasar (this might be a bit of a handful for a short time, till you get your boat handling skills up), a mirror (there the ones with red sails which you see a large number of) and a heron (pretty heavy) . All 3 of these classes are often sailed even at the top level by a parent and their child (any age) or just two adults.
 
I'm with Alan - it sounds like a Heron or similar would be the right class for you. You could go sailing with your son in a Laser, but it isn't really what a Laser is designed for so I don't think either of you would get as much out of it as you would like. The Heron is a family class, mostly sailed by parents and their kids and they are much more comfortable and forgiving than a Laser.They aren't as fast as a Laser, but is more than fast enough for a six year old.
 
Thanks guys, I have already started reading up on Heron's. Hey, you can even build your own, now wouldn't that be a great winter project!
 
My only issue with the Heron is the weight, the Mirror is a very similar boat (comfortable forgiving and can also be home built) but significantly lighter. Then agai I suppose the Heron has the whisker pole which would be an advantage over the smallish spinnaker used on the Mirror, when it come to a 6 year old handling it.
 
This laser sailor starting sailing in a Mirror, crewing for his dad at the age of 7, so I'll endorse that choice. I think it would be a better choice than a Laser standard because it will give your boy something to do on the water, with a jib to trim, and maybe if you're ambitious, a spinnaker. I love the laser, of course, and I've sailed it with passengers on board, but it's uncomfortable and difficult to coordinate, but the Mirror really is a much better boat for two (or more).
 
I am an ex-mirror sailor and I think that the mirror is a great boat I would definetely go with Alan D here the mirror is lighter and would be much easier to rig and get to the water than a heron. This weekend I saw an adult sail one single handedly and win the race. This would be a good thing because you would be able to keep it flat by yourself if you have to.
 
I help teach sailing at my yacht club and since you live in Australia (i presume, from the mention of Sydney), i recommended a pacer or a 125. Both are 2 or 3 person boats and pacers are what we use for the trainees. http://www.pacersailing.org.au/ They have a small spinaker,jib and are fairly stable. we have some young crew and parent combinations at the club.
125s have bigger spinakkers, jib, a trapeze,are slightly less stable than pacers but are faster. http://www.125assoc.com/default.asp
I have sailed both and i taught my dad (im 15) to sail in a 125, and currently teach in pacers.
These 2 boats are less technical then tasars and are very family friendly.
i hope this helps
 
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