New Rudder at Lewes, De

C

chaplinesq

New Member
The 2009 SF Masters was held at Lewes YC, this past weekend. All the sailors and the RC P.R.O. agreed to allow me to use the rudder and take myself out of the running for trophies. Here's what I remember. Since it had been a couple weeks since I'd sailed, my "rudder memory" was a bit...distant. The wind was a steady 15-18, maybe more; ideal to test the new blade, according to its developer Tom Whitehurst. A few people watching me thought I was able to point higher, but then I'm a pincher anyway, so that may have just been me. I had some terrible starts, so it was come from behind time all day long. My usual. But, to my credit (or maybe the rudder's), I DID have a few better than average (for me) come from behind legs.

Upwind the feel was...fluid; requiring much less effort to move the boat around. Downwind?...money making time. Sweet feel. I felt I was faster than ME, downwind; and the boat goes where you want it to, immediately. You know those days when you're manhandling/hugging the tiller extension downwind, and you get that sore spot just above your elbow? The new rudder would cure SUNFISH ELBOW. For that reason alone, I'd promote it. I appreciated the opportunity to test the rudder in battle conditions.

All weekend I was trying to think of the perfect phrase or concept to describe the difference. I think I found it. I didn't think of it until Monday, when I was able to get back out on Clarks Hill Reservoir in Georgia; again in 15+ gusts, to remember what the normal rudder feels like, in a blow. I'm old enough to remember cars before POWER STEERING. The new rudder gave me exactly that feeling...of having some sort of hydraulic system attached, making it sooo much easier to turn and maneuver. You want POWER STEERING for your Sunfish? I do.

The downside? You won't be able to scull your boat back to the dock on those dead air days; but then you won't have to watch the "scullers" work upwind either; unless of course they're using the old rudder. hmmm

My personal opinion is that it's not the question of a couple hundred bucks. It will be the question of availability; how soon can "I" get one? I've tried it, I'm hooked.

POWER STEERING for your Sunfish!

John R Helman DMD
 
I was also at the regatta, and ended up with a different conclusion. I was able to eliminate pretty much all my weather helm by adjusting my gooseneck. When I got overpowered at the end of the third race on Saturday, I put on a Jens rig and solved handling problems for the fourth race.

Where do you normally have your gooseneck in a blow? At 20 inches I had no problem. Also, are you oversheeting offwind? I was not having helm problems on the reaches or the dead downwinds. I wonder if you tend to oversheet offwind?

The best part about my solution is it doesn't cost anything!

Chris
 
Chris,
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the gooseneck and sheeting suggestions. Being just over a season and a half back in the boat and trying to figure out all the new ideas, rigging, etc, has been...interesting. I had my gooseneck at 23, all day Saturday. Sunday when it lightened and I went back to the normal rudder, I had it at 19. I'm pretty conscious of oversheeting, so I don't think that's my problem; but thanks for mentioning it. Offwind, and upwind, the new rudder had this FLUIDITY of feel that you won't understand until you try it. Wish I could send you one. Tom Whitehurst's comments to me about tacking problems were about the legal rudder set at a steeper angle; my mistake. I've taken that comment out of the original posting. The whole question of CLR/CLE in a Sunfish is not resolved. The jens rig moves the CLE back, and in my mind makes the boat un-tackable, because the boom rides so low over the boat, assuming the gooseneck is in the 20+ range for the wind, as well.
 
Hi, Tom got me a new rudder to try in 2007, so I have used it on and off since then. Here are my conclusions, keeping in mind I weigh 160 lbs.:
- Under 12 or 13 kts - no significant difference between the two rudders
- over that much - helm remains almost neutral on the new ruddder, I don't think you need to move the gooseneck back as far.

Let me be clear - I think that the new rudder is better - but the current rudder, with proper tuning of the rig, is fine. I think had the boat been designed in the first place with a better rudder that would have been better. But I don't think the difference is worth the expense. I commend Tom for developing a better rudder, but in my mind, it will not expand the number of people racing Sunfish. And for those of us already racing them, we should work on our tuneups so that the helm is minimized with the current rudder.

I would be remiss if I did not say that I belong to Brant Beach YC in NJ, and Brant Beach is a notoriously weedy location. In a breeze, the new rudder collects weed and the drag kicks the rudder up, which is a bad situation. If the new rudder is approved, the manufacturer will probably have to develop stronger springs to keep the rudder down.

Finally, regarding your comment "The jens rig moves the CLR back, and in my mind makes the boat un-tackable, because the boom rides so low over the boat, assuming the gooseneck is in the 20+ range for the wind, as well." The new rudder WILL NOT eliminate the need for a Jens rig among those of us who cannot hike hard enough to keep the boat flat in breezy conditions. When it blows 17-18+ or so, I will still need a Jens, and certainly people who are lighter than I am will too. The Jens will remain a necessary way to depower the boat. If you are heavier or taller, there is less need for it, so getting under the boom is not an issue. For me, I just have to remember to DUCK LOW!!

Chris
 
CWilliams said:
Let me be clear - I think that the new rudder is better - but the current rudder, with proper tuning of the rig, is fine. I think had the boat been designed in the first place with a better rudder that would have been better. But I don't think the difference is worth the expense. I commend Tom for developing a better rudder, but in my mind, it will not expand the number of people racing Sunfish. And for those of us already racing them, we should work on our tuneups so that the helm is minimized with the current rudder.
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Chris, I’m going to try a different tack at explaining why this rudder is an overall plus. I’m sure you discuss these things with Tom, but I will toss my perspective in anyway.

First, I will assume that you have reviewed my posting under “Impact of Design Changes”. It is a simple explanation of how the new rudder corrects the current rudder’s main deficiency. I will also assume that you concur with the technical aspects of what the new rudder does.

If you think about it, your average size, experienced, strong male competitor has all the tools necessary to balance the boat and control power in various conditions. For you and I, the new rudder has little meaning beyond greater off-wind boat control. Competitors such as you and I are not at issue here, and all the techniques we currently employ to sail the boat flat and fast will remain in play with either rudder.

The new rudder will have its impact with the lighter/younger/older/female groups who are penalized in heavier conditions by the current rudder design. This is a large group of folks, and the problem is not their inability to understand or employ the various balance and power control techniques. Those techniques do have effective limitations. These competitors suffer unfairly and unnecessarily from the current rudder’s deficiencies

Don’t get me wrong… this rudder is by no means a ‘magic bullet’. Everyone, young and old, male and female, will still need to employ balance and power control techniques and skills to succeed, regardless of which rudder they use. They will have to keep the boat flat with a good ‘power to weight’ ratio to be competitive. The difference will come in reducing the penalty that some suffer due solely to the current rudder’s shortcomings.

Bottom line: This new rudder DOES and WILL expand the competitive weight/gender/age range of the Sunfish, and that can only expand the number and quality of competitors. Any other conclusion can only be based on technical inaccuracy and is therefore probably incorrect.

The new rudder also makes the Sunfish easier to control and more fun for the average recreational sailor. I don’t think this factor is given enough attention, and it will make a difference in the longevity of our beloved Sunfish. For a class that should be intensely focusing on the issue of an aging class membership, rejecting such an improvement for the sake of a few bucks seems very short sighted to me. When I’m older, I sure would like to see a new crop of younger Masters competitors to race against. This doesn’t look likely if we sit on the sidelines and do nothing to address the issue. I submit to you that this is a single positive step in the right direction.
 
limey said:
Rick, total agreement !!
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Thanks, Peter. I went back and reviewed your postings under "Impact of Design Changes", and it seems our 'bigger picture' views are consistent. I struggle for better ways to convey to everyone what you and I can see so clearly.
 
I sailed with the new rudder in heavy air (18-22) on the Sunday before NAC at Rush Creek, TX. My sister-in-law went out too. It was amazing to see the difference in weather helm. My helm so much less than hers.

In regards to heavy air tuning...yes, you can move your gooseneck back and put in jens. The problem is weather helm. The real question, is can ya'll sail sunfish without weather helm?

The new rudder will allow the 100 lb person to be competitive at a higher wind speed. She/He will not be fighting the rudder which very distracting and be able to concentrate on tactics.

Please support this movement. It will grow the class and allow more Sunfish to be sold on and off the race course.

Sincerely
Clinton Edwards
 
ANyone have the actual spec's on the new rudder along with the difference in the 120 deg angle with the bottom of the hull?
 
mike4947 said:
ANyone have the actual spec's on the new rudder along with the difference in the 120 deg angle with the bottom of the hull?
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Attached is a pdf that shows the differences. The "71 Design" is our current blade. I believe the proposed design that Tom Whitehurst did is 1A. It is the only totally new design being considered at this time. There are also a variety of other designs that have been considered in the past, including the Escape rudder that was mentioned in the history thread.
 

Attachments

  • Visio-rudder.pdf
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Thank you, outside of the tapered sides it's basically what I did when I replaced the original paddle rudder with a new style rudder on my old boat dropping the angle down to apx 90 degrees from the bottom of the hull and adding a tiller notch to the top to guarantee the tiller stayed off the deck.
 
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