Laser Quality

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by viktor188924, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Olympic guys get new boats every year because they go soft
     
  2. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    I strongly believe that this is no mistake in manufacturing. This is a new design, and it doesn't work because when they put the hull and deck together it's not straight. Like I said, on the older boats (I'm talking a few years here) there is no lip on the underside of the deck where the deck part of the trunk fits into the hull part, like the new design is. For the older ones it's flush, I don't know how they did it back then but it looks great.

    Theres another point, just like what we were saying about the Opti kids. When people have the means to get a new boat every year, and new gear or whatever, they'll do it. Olympic sailors have sponsors and whatever so it's no problem for them to get whatever they want.
     
  3. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    Why would they go soft?

    ...too much overtraining?

    ...too many dates with the olympic-gymnast hopefuls?

    :p
     
  4. Josef

    Josef New Member

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    Olympic guys get new boats every year because if they don't they'll start wondering if it's the boats fault that they're not winning =p
    Another thing I've noticed is how they sell their boats for more than they payed for them so they probably actualy make money of it. Now if it works like it does in many other classes where you can buy the boats you borrow at events for a reasonably low prize they make even more money of it. I don't know if this is the case with the laser class though.
     
  5. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    I think it's a combination of all of this... except the gymnast thing =0P. I think they get new boats because they CAN. Wouldn't you? They want the best of the best. And they make money off of the boats because everyone wants to by an Olympian's boat. Wouldn't you?
     
  6. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    exactly

    and you sail a boat for for an average of 4 hours a day, say 280 days a year, its gonna get soft no question
     
  7. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    It's not the design. It's the low weight and the fact that introducing carbon to the hull would kill the class and price it out of reach.

    Competitive Mumm 30 and Melges 24's trade up to new boats every few years too because they think they get soft. However, the older J22's and J24's seem to do just fine.

    I agree that lasers do soften over time as most boats do. When I went from a 76 hull to a 94 hull it was like day and night. However, it's only the elite Olympic sailors that can tell the difference between a boat that is 1-2 years old compared to one fresh out of the box.
     
  8. Josef

    Josef New Member

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    Defining diffrence might be a good idea.
    Anyone can notice the diffrences in stiffness by just banging around on the hull, speed diffrence might be another story though. =P
     
  9. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    Yes well it always depends on how much you use the boat. Olympic sailors would obviously practice more than the majority of people. They're not exactly doing recreational sailing. They really give their lasers a work out. Well unlike Midwinters East where everyone had new charter boats, at ACCs there were a lot of really good sailors, and I don't think even one of the top ten had a 2006 or 2007 boat.
     
  10. Laserite

    Laserite New Member

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    Maybe they should just toughen up then. :rolleyes:
     
  11. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    You're talking about the boats? Well I think it'll take a lot to get the rules changed
     
  12. Josef

    Josef New Member

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    Changeing the hull material/design/whatever would be incredibly bad for casual sailors unless the change really makes the class ALOT cheeper and ALOT more durable.
    With the hulls now a casual sailer can use his laser for some 10+ years and be reasonably competetive, even though olympic sailors might feel that they "need" to buy new boats.
    If the boats are changed, then everyone will need to buy new boats or they won't be able to compete.
     
  13. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    Good thinking. Being a one-design class, if you change the definition of a class legal boat would mean that everyone needs to buy a new one. If that happened that I think all of the Laser sailors would just mutiny and start a new Laser racing organization =0P. Plust anything that reinforces the structure or makes it more durable would cost the manufacturer more money and.... well it just wont happen. I think that the durability of the boats is fine the way it is... and olympic sailor can just do what the freak they want.
     
  14. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Actually, a cheaper to build, longer lasting Laser has been possible for at least 30 years. Initially the cheaper version would only be faster in chop as it would be slightly stiffer as it came from the factory.
    As time passes, the cheaper Laser would stay stiff longer while older Lasers of the current design become soft and fail sooner.
    Building Lasers is a business. People invest money and lives and expect to get a return on those investments. CURRENTLY< There is nothing to be gained for the manufacturers of the Lasers by producing better and longer lasting toys.
    Better and longer lasting lasers will only come when there is a financial reward for the builders.

    examples:
    Another similar boat comes out and because it does everything a laser does except fall apart, people switch to the new boat.

    Suggestion:
    Build a boat that goes about the same speed as a laser and lasts a long long time. The sailors will buy your boat. Fleets of your boat will form. In an attempt to survive, Some Laser fleets will allow the similar boat to join their Laser races. Lasers will be replaced by the new durable toys.

    First guy with a million bucks and the knowledge to manufacture the new improved toy can have the market.
     
  15. Josef

    Josef New Member

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    I think something that could work would be if ILCA or something got someone to start building a boat that is as close to the laser as possible, but with as much durability/prize improvments as possible.
    Then when the fleet of new boats has grown enough and been around for a wile so there's a good second hand market they can allow the class to compete with normal lasers (and get classed as Lasers).
    The problem with this is that no matter how you do it the 2nd hand prize of lasers will probably go down quite alot.
     
  16. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    That's... interesting. Vanguard would never allow this. They don't want someone else making a boat thats practically the same. And I bet the ILCA and Vanguard are great buddies. This would have to be a private thing, with a new organization, unless you can convince Vanguard to set up a whole new Laser... which they're not going to do because they're profiting off of the Laser right now and everything is going smoothly. There's no epidemic going on where everyone's boats are falling apart and they have to do a recall and stuff... like with those laptop batteries that were exploding. Though, it would be cool if Vanguard took mine and my friend's boats and gave us new 2008's. Sorry, but I really don't think that what you're saying will happen unless you get a million bucks like gouvernail was saying. You can do it!
     
  17. Josef

    Josef New Member

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    I don't expect it to happend eather, just abit of random theorys that will never actualy be shown in action =p
    If we are to keep the incredibly strict one-design idea that regulates the laser class we'll just have to live with this.

    It's like democracy, it sucks but it's still the best way =P
     
  18. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    So you don't like the strictness? I kind of do. I mean I like that someone with a lot of boat/sail/blade/spar making resources can build something better than everyone else. For me, it's only the second class I've ever been involved with, so it's great for me to be able to speed test someone else, without taking into account all of the variables in equipment we might have. I agree... it's the best way.
     
  19. Josef

    Josef New Member

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    Where do you get that from? I never said that =p
     
  20. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    yeah sorry about that you had two conflicting ideas
    and
    my bad im kinda tired =0P
     

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