I'm interested in buying a Laser, but need help first

A

aeiro

New Member
I live in the Orange County area and I've been sailing for about 8 years, and racing for about 4, but never really owned my own boat. I've always sailed on teams. I've got a lot of experience sailing on the CFJ, as well as some on a Finn and a brand new Laser (which I know I can't afford). Last year I came VERY close to buying a Finn from a friend, however, when I was trying to figure out a way to transport it and store it (as my car doesn't have a hitch), I realized it was unfeasible.

The thing that sounds great about a Laser is the fact that you can transport it on a roof rack, so that sounds like it would be much easier to transport. I also know it's much lighter and smaller than a Finn, so I could store it much more easily at my house.

I'm approximately 210 pounds, 6'3". I'm guessing that I'd need a Laser full rig vs a radial, but I really don't know much about this. My budget is around $2000. I can go up a little if needed. I'd like a ready to race boat, but I can accept that that may not be possible, and I may have to build it up on my own. I know I need a stiff hull, but other than that, I'm not entirely sure what to check for, or where to look. What are some common structural deficiencies that I should look out for, and what about the sails? I know next to nothing about Laser sails.

Also, what about dollies? Are they needed? Can I get away with a cheap one?

Anyway, thanks for your help. Hope to see you all on the water soon.
 
Size and budget you sound like myself three years ago when I bought my boat. After spending time talking to a lot of people better qualified than I this is what I did:
1. focus on the hull and its strength. Find a good smooth, strong, scratch free hull. Dont care too much what's attached to it
2. I bought a good "hardly sailed" older boat (16xxxx), strong hull that had been hiding in a garage. Had old style rig and radial sail only (which allowed the price to be dragged down).
3. Took a bit of a gamble as found the right priced boat a few hundred miles away but got a proper expert to come with me and check for hull softness, mast hole integrity, oxidation, ware on stress points, bend etc. Turns out the owner was absolutely honest on the phone and got extra photos sent through before trip
4. spent the two years turning it into stadard rig xd, new just about everything. straight away swapped to a standard rig- first buy.
5. My experience is Laser' tend to be seen as clutter when being sold and dolly/road trailer were thrown in for the price

I reckon I saved some proper cash doing it this way rather than paying a premium for younger, fully kitted out boat. Had a great time cleaning it up, building it into a boat you can race with (rather badly). Very glad I didn't buy new not just for money reasons. As per sail; its the part that has probably deteriorated the most under previous ownerships so save money, get a good hull, buy a new one. I just club sail and replica saved me a lot; especially as per sail.
 
+1 to buying a good used hull and investing time & $ fixing it up. What to look for in a hull- there's a "used laser buying guide" in the sticky posts here. It is WELL worth reading. IMHO the worst potential problem is the mast step (hole) coming detached from the inside of the hull. If (when) it does, it really tears up the deck and is hard to repair well. The risk of breaking would be more for a big person racing a full rig, on an older hull. Boats older than mid-1990's (sorry I don't know the exact date) are the ones at risk- later ones were built different & stronger. The good news for the older boats have NOT broken, is you can put an inspection port into the foredeck + reinforce the weak joint for no more than $50-100 and a couple hours. So these older boats are potentially a good way to save $ and still have a good boat- That is assuming there's no other "show stopper" issues with the hull. Especially look for squishy/soft deck, soft spots in the hull. See that "used laser buying guide."

I don't race, just recreational, but I upgraded an old boat & rig too. I found the vang to be the single biggest "bang for the buck" in sailing/trimming the boat. I didn't buy the whole upgrade kit. I just bought 2 single blocks and a double becket block, and fitted a 5:1 pulling the vang "tail", which on top of the old 3:1 vang, provides 15:1 same as the new ones. It was much cheaper and is functionally very similar. Also, if your boat comes with the old style vang and you upgrade it, definitely put the boom sleeve in. (Newer boats are built with it, older ones don't have it.) The next most helpful rigging upgrade was the outhaul, and then the cunningham, both of which I also did by buying parts rather than the full upgrade kit. Again, it saved money.

Car-top vs trailer:
If you're just moving your boat between water and home 2-4 times a year, car-topping works fine. But even a big guy like you will struggle to put it up & get it down by yourself, without scratching or damaging the car or the boat. The hull weighs 132 lbs, but it's also 15 feet long, awkward to grasp + hold, has lots of linear & turning momentum as you move it around, and catches the wind pretty well. In other words, it's way harder than bench pressing or standing press 135 lbs on a barbell.

If you're gonna move the boat back + forth most weekends, consider getting a hitch put on your car and using a trailer. You can get a hitch put on most cars for about $200 (U-Haul being one source, among many.) Often a trailer comes with an old boat, like prev poster said. Of course this only works if you have a place to store a boat+trailer at home. Or maybe you keep it near the water- if you sail with a club etc it's often a pretty modest cost to keep your boat in the club yard, summer and/or winter, or maybe you can find a friend or a lil business that'll let you keep it in the back, the shed, or something, maybe free, maybe for a couple bucks.

If you're gonna put money into a trailer or dolly, and have the option to choose which one, I'd suggest go with a true trailer. It gives the option of taking your boat home, on the road, etc without the difficulty of car-topping. And a trailer works fine as launch dolly, but a dolly will never work as a trailer. If you go the dolly route, a cheap one is fine. You could probably build something serviceable real cheap. Might be some plans around somewhere.

Other repairs/upgrades to older boats: The "used laser buying guide" has much more detail. But quickly:
-through-bolt the high-stress points- attach points for hiking strap, traveller leads, rudder, mainsheet deck block, etc
- flip the spars
- sail: if you can sail the races you want to sail with a replica or "practice" sail, that saves big money. Most posters on here say they are almost indistinguishable performance, and if anything may last longer.

Good luck, have fun.
 
Vang point absolutely right above. I would like to emphasise fixing up 6:1 outhaul is well worth the trouble as one of the first things to do.

One negative point difficult to gauge on a used boat is metal fatigue: topmast sheered clean off after about a year or so in heavy windy. I was lucky, got mainsheet and lines off and didn't rip the sail to shreds.
 
I just bought a used but refurbished 93 Laser with trolley from West Coast Sailing in Portland, OR for $2300. It was almost perfect condition with all the race upgrades, top, bottom covers, 3 sails, etc. They have a good stock of used boats ready to sail. Mine came from some Columbia Gorge Laser racers. I know it's a 1000 miles from Orange County but check out their web site for used Laser boats. At least it will give you some ideas. Good luck!
 
Confirming that you'd want a standard rig. "Ready to race" means it must have the 'turbo' or 'XD' fittings; cam-cleats mounted on the deck in front of the centreboard and a swivelling cam-cleat vang/kicker. I'd say the difference between new and old sails would make more difference than new and old hulls, but obviously replacing a sail is a lot cheaper and easier down the track.
Personally I bought a Laser because I wanted to enjoy close racing. I bought the cheapest ($500AU including road trailer), beat-up old thing (24877), and then fixed it up a bit. I filled in the scratches, sanded back the raised gel-coat cracks, filled & sanded the foils, and eventually fitted a bunch of upgrades. It now almost has the full turbo gear, thin mainsheet (7mm Robline Dinghy Sheet) and new mast sections. The hull is about 5kg overwieght, due to the old foam blocks inside it getting waterlogged. As mentioned above, the old top section sheared in half in strong winds. But it was fun! GPS recorded boat speed of 30km/h (15 knots) and then the next gust snapped it. All good fun.
I've raced it in State Titles, State Masters, regattas and club races. The boat speed has been fine; not noticeably different to the wankers on their brand new 200,xxx numbered tupperware. Tactical decisions, tacking, gybing and technique has made 95% of the difference in where I've finished. So I reckon unless you're a top-class athlete and brilliant sailor, dont waste your money chasing those final percent differences. The beauty of Lasers is that they're all basically the same.
 
I am interested in buying a laser.
What are some trouble spots to watch out?
Also,
what would be a decent price for just a standard, solid laser? I don't need(or want) all the race features.
Thanks,
M
 
Mate! Scroll upwards; your question is aleady answered. The 'race features' are more easily adjustable controls. They make sailing more fun whether you race or not. It's so much better having the outhaul adjustable on the deck, rather than that awful clam-cleat on the boom.
Browse here for prices of boats: http://sailingforums.com/forums/Laser_Sales/
 
aeiro said:
I know I need a stiff hull, but other than that, I'm not entirely sure what to check for, or where to look. What are some common structural deficiencies that I should look out for, and what about the sails? I know next to nothing about Laser sails.

Also, what about dollies? Are they needed? Can I get away with a cheap one?

Anyway, thanks for your help. Hope to see you all on the water soon.
Click to expand...


I'm going through the same excercise now, think it makes sense to find a lightly-sailed well-stored 'older' boat and trick it out the way you want as opposed a well worn fully XD kitted boat.
Another buyer's guide up in the UK is pretty useful too: http://www.deadrock.co.uk/laser/used01.htm
Have fun and let us know how you get on
 
I agree with the above on what to look for in a boat. Finding a good Laser for a decent price is a very challenging proposition these days. I found my current boat that I've been racing for 5 years here on the boards. It was 2 years old and had never seen the water! The rig and boards were still in the original packaging. You will never find that these days!

I also monitor Craigs List and eBay. If patient, you can find some great deals. I actually found a free boat on CL. It was a hull only and took quite a bit of work, but it's a great boat for my kids!

This site has some boats not just in Texas... http://sailingtexas.com/

Another option when looking for a boat is to find the closest yacht club with a fleet. There are always those boats that are in good shape that never get used. Find out the contact info from the club, and you can often make an unsolicited offer. I did that with an MC several years ago, and I bought it for about 20% less than market. Something about a person showing up with cash for something you barely use!

One final method is approaching the local dealer. They will sometimes take a used boat in on trade (at least the one here will). Problem with that is it's much like a used car. The dealer needs to make a profit, so you may not get as good of a deal. However, if he has been sitting on it for a while, you might get lucky.

Hope this helps!
 
You'd be surprised what you can get for around 2000 or even a lot less, check craiglist, local sailing clubs, beaches, ebay, laser forum classifieds

on craigslist especially, you'll find a lot of junk boats that are trying to be sold for as much as a race ready boat o, you can clearly identify them by being stored on a front lawn with no dolly, old sail that looks like a drop cloth, wooden tiller that looks like a piece of driftwood, lines that look like they'll turn to dust under load, ect

here's an example of don't even bother: http://newhaven.craigslist.org/boa/3768602435.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/boa/3839177094.html (priced so cheap because it can come to the bar with you?...)

look for a boat:
-that was taken care of
-was stored properly
-has decent rigging
-mast step doesn't leak (if it does leak either pass or get it for a bargain and fix)
-check overall condition, gunwales, gudgeons, drain plug, bailer, centerboard
-for a race boat you also want to look for a newer hull and upgraded rigging

A dolly is a must for racing,

Seitech dollies are pretty much the standard around here, lightweight nothing special but they work, they're hard to find used but they're around, if you get a boat without one it will cost anywhere from ~150-400 for a dolly,

if your club has a ramp you can also try to find a trolley which might be a little cheaper, they're really heavy though

for the club boats in our fleet, one of them has a knock off brand dolley and it does a serious job on the hull, it leaves big marks and doesn't support the hull by the gunwales, has bad tires and It's just a big PITA to use, save yourself the hassle
 
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