H'portLaserer
Member
What's the best approach a R.C. should take to control an aggressive starting line after multiple general recalls? I Flag, Black Flag,...other? thanks
I Flag & Black Flag
- Thread starter H'portLaserer
- Start date
Sean
Member
My first suggestion would be to have a good hard look at the line that has been set and also determine how favored the first beat is to one side.
If people are pushing the line the whole length of it, which in my opinion is quite rare bring out the black flag after 2 attempts but ONLY when you are 110% sure it isn't a fault with the line or course.
If, as is more often the case, boats are stacked up at either the pin or boat end and all the surrounding boats are over early every start, you need to give the sailors a fair and even line. Ask yourself why are they there, engaging in a risky start when half the line is empty, you can bet it is for a good reason.
If the line is so short you have a few rows of boats all pushing and shoving for a place in the front you often get boats over early. Make your line longer so so every boat can claim a small place to start.
Nothing is worse than seeing a line that is so uneven you have no real choice but to start at the favored end and a committee that is heavy handed with the black flag when its their line setting that has caused the problem in the first place.
When setting the line look at the angles of the boats setting up and use your own wind indicator as a reference. You are anchored so the wind will have a different direction compared to an unanchored boat if your in tidal waters. A boat sitting head to wind checking the line or obtaining transits is a good way to check that your line is fair.
If your line is good and it is actually just keen competitors give them 2 chances and then start taking numbers. Don't use the black flag to threaten either, if you use it be prepared to take numbers and use it fairly. Don't just put say, 3 boats numbers up on the board if clearly half the fleet is still over as an example. Put up every single number you could get or else just try again.
The black flag is often misused to send a message to the fleet with no thought for fairness. In the rush that often occurs as the start gun goes off on a committee boat, especially without many people to help, it is all too easy to not get as many numbers as you can. If you see a bunch of boats over at the pin but couldn't identify all of them as the gun goes, keep recording the ocs's as they sail up the course or circle back around. If your line was good and you have 10 numbers up on your board the fleet will better behaved next start for sure.
And no, I am not often black flagged so I have no axe to grind regarding this.
If people are pushing the line the whole length of it, which in my opinion is quite rare bring out the black flag after 2 attempts but ONLY when you are 110% sure it isn't a fault with the line or course.
If, as is more often the case, boats are stacked up at either the pin or boat end and all the surrounding boats are over early every start, you need to give the sailors a fair and even line. Ask yourself why are they there, engaging in a risky start when half the line is empty, you can bet it is for a good reason.
If the line is so short you have a few rows of boats all pushing and shoving for a place in the front you often get boats over early. Make your line longer so so every boat can claim a small place to start.
Nothing is worse than seeing a line that is so uneven you have no real choice but to start at the favored end and a committee that is heavy handed with the black flag when its their line setting that has caused the problem in the first place.
When setting the line look at the angles of the boats setting up and use your own wind indicator as a reference. You are anchored so the wind will have a different direction compared to an unanchored boat if your in tidal waters. A boat sitting head to wind checking the line or obtaining transits is a good way to check that your line is fair.
If your line is good and it is actually just keen competitors give them 2 chances and then start taking numbers. Don't use the black flag to threaten either, if you use it be prepared to take numbers and use it fairly. Don't just put say, 3 boats numbers up on the board if clearly half the fleet is still over as an example. Put up every single number you could get or else just try again.
The black flag is often misused to send a message to the fleet with no thought for fairness. In the rush that often occurs as the start gun goes off on a committee boat, especially without many people to help, it is all too easy to not get as many numbers as you can. If you see a bunch of boats over at the pin but couldn't identify all of them as the gun goes, keep recording the ocs's as they sail up the course or circle back around. If your line was good and you have 10 numbers up on your board the fleet will better behaved next start for sure.
And no, I am not often black flagged so I have no axe to grind regarding this.
Sean is on the money here. I also use the technique of geting the competitors to tell me if they think the line is biased (Don't I Sean? 
) .
When it comes to the choice between the I flag and Black, you're misunderstanding their application. The I flag is really the equivalent of the P flag not a Black flag. The I flag forces the competitors to ends where should they go over the line early, they have the opportunity to go around the ends and IMO should be avoided, it doesn't get the boats evenly separated down the line so everyone can get a fair start. I have no issues with P flags with automatic disqualification unless there is a general recall or the sensible use of a Black flag as described by Sean. But the aim of the starter should be to get an even fair start for the whole fleet and the I flag does not do this.
) .When it comes to the choice between the I flag and Black, you're misunderstanding their application. The I flag is really the equivalent of the P flag not a Black flag. The I flag forces the competitors to ends where should they go over the line early, they have the opportunity to go around the ends and IMO should be avoided, it doesn't get the boats evenly separated down the line so everyone can get a fair start. I have no issues with P flags with automatic disqualification unless there is a general recall or the sensible use of a Black flag as described by Sean. But the aim of the starter should be to get an even fair start for the whole fleet and the I flag does not do this.
Based on some big-time regattas with high-adrenaline sailors, I favor a gradual approach:
After two general recalls, bring out the I flag. If there are further problems, the Z flag and ultimately the Black flag. Or skip the Z flag option.
The comments from Sean are on target; definitely look at the line first!
After two general recalls, bring out the I flag. If there are further problems, the Z flag and ultimately the Black flag. Or skip the Z flag option.
The comments from Sean are on target; definitely look at the line first!
Sailorchick
Member
In the UK we tend to get the I flag for the first start and go straight to a black flag if there is a recall.
LASERNUT
Member
we would never get started in the UK if we didn't go to black flag on first general!
H'portLaserer
Member
that's been our experience, even with a good line set up. and a Black Flag violation is a DSQ and usually not allowed to be dropped as worst race - too harsh? what's typical?
Sailorchick
Member
We don't have to count a BFD but as our regattas usually only have one discard it tends to make people behave more on subsequent starts.
It was discusssed a few years back after one qualifier at Pwllheli about making BFD DNE as we lost races due to the number of BFD's and many people had more than one BFD but it was decided to be too harsh.
It was discusssed a few years back after one qualifier at Pwllheli about making BFD DNE as we lost races due to the number of BFD's and many people had more than one BFD but it was decided to be too harsh.