Hull wax
- Thread starter altair
- Start date
beldar boathead
Married to Primat Boathead
If you want speed, you do not want wax. You should use McLube. Just clean the hull then spray it on. BB
odegaard
cAPTN oDIE
wax is slow!--too much surface friction. For racing you want a wetting agent or just old wet sanding of the hull.
- from the For What It's Worth Dept.:
Complete Article ( http://www.thebeachcats.com/OnTheWire/www.catsail.com/archives/v3-i2/feature4.htm )
An individual who has sailed with and around Dennis Conner (of America’s Cup fame) related a quote to me in which Mr. Conner was asked why he wet- sanded his cup boats. He replied that he had absolutely no idea, but that if he didn’t, he was sure the other teams were and by God he was going to as well, if for no other reason than to level the playing field. It is also postulated that his teams wet-sand to promote team unity and to assure as “fair” as possible a hull form, more than a scientifically based attempt to gain speed. I believe he should wet-sand, then follow up with a silicone-based polish. It is interesting to note that when Dennis lost the Cup to New Zealand and subsequently took the Catamaran (yeah, boy) “Stars and Stripes” to get it back, he was not only wet-sanding, but using a controversial coating (polish) that I believe was called “Shark Skin”. It’s amazing to watch how in their desperation to go 0.001 knot faster, it’s even easier to suck the best sailors into trying every bottle of juice from every snake oil salesman on the globe. The fact is any possible difference that “Shark Skin” could have made, as compared to wet-sanding, or wax, or silicone polish, is so miniscule that it can’t be measured from the noise.
Go ahead and wax your hull. It will protect it from UV damage, keep it looking shiny and, thanks to Billy Crystal, we all know it’s better to look good than to feel good.
.
.
Complete Article ( http://www.thebeachcats.com/OnTheWire/www.catsail.com/archives/v3-i2/feature4.htm )
An individual who has sailed with and around Dennis Conner (of America’s Cup fame) related a quote to me in which Mr. Conner was asked why he wet- sanded his cup boats. He replied that he had absolutely no idea, but that if he didn’t, he was sure the other teams were and by God he was going to as well, if for no other reason than to level the playing field. It is also postulated that his teams wet-sand to promote team unity and to assure as “fair” as possible a hull form, more than a scientifically based attempt to gain speed. I believe he should wet-sand, then follow up with a silicone-based polish. It is interesting to note that when Dennis lost the Cup to New Zealand and subsequently took the Catamaran (yeah, boy) “Stars and Stripes” to get it back, he was not only wet-sanding, but using a controversial coating (polish) that I believe was called “Shark Skin”. It’s amazing to watch how in their desperation to go 0.001 knot faster, it’s even easier to suck the best sailors into trying every bottle of juice from every snake oil salesman on the globe. The fact is any possible difference that “Shark Skin” could have made, as compared to wet-sanding, or wax, or silicone polish, is so miniscule that it can’t be measured from the noise.
Go ahead and wax your hull. It will protect it from UV damage, keep it looking shiny and, thanks to Billy Crystal, we all know it’s better to look good than to feel good.
.
.
imported_chucktowncolie
New Member
Teflon based marine polish. It's legal and not slow.
sailpuff223
New Member
I have heard different things over the years, when it comes to waxing hulls and not. Wet sanding certainly makes the boat feel faster when you drag your hands over it, and does allow a more planar surface to prevent disruptions of the flow of water over it, but I can't imagine in a sunfish this would be that big of a deal.
Wax I have also heard causes the water to bead and is slow on the bottom of your boat, however if you do wetsand the bottom of your boat, I would highly advise never leaving it out on the sun, b/c you are taking away a UV protecting film, and can cause your gelcoat to yellow. I would agree the 3M wax with teflon seems like it would be fine, I'm not sure about the beading characteristics of a teflon wax versus standard Carnauba wax, but I would have to imagine that teflon does not allow as much as the standard wax due to the fact that it would probably be more hydrophobic, and therefore not allow the water to bead. However, again, with the amount of boat that is in the water, I can't imagine that this would cause enough of an effect to slow you down that much. Wetsanding is also pulling more of your gelcoat off, and I'd have to imagine that compounding on top of this would be even faster, because it would act more as a chemical mechanical planarization/ rather than just a mechanical planarization. If these have any appreciable differences, it would be very difficult to tell. I'd have to imagine that the weight between skippers would be far more detrimental to overall boat speed than that of your bottom surface.
Wax I have also heard causes the water to bead and is slow on the bottom of your boat, however if you do wetsand the bottom of your boat, I would highly advise never leaving it out on the sun, b/c you are taking away a UV protecting film, and can cause your gelcoat to yellow. I would agree the 3M wax with teflon seems like it would be fine, I'm not sure about the beading characteristics of a teflon wax versus standard Carnauba wax, but I would have to imagine that teflon does not allow as much as the standard wax due to the fact that it would probably be more hydrophobic, and therefore not allow the water to bead. However, again, with the amount of boat that is in the water, I can't imagine that this would cause enough of an effect to slow you down that much. Wetsanding is also pulling more of your gelcoat off, and I'd have to imagine that compounding on top of this would be even faster, because it would act more as a chemical mechanical planarization/ rather than just a mechanical planarization. If these have any appreciable differences, it would be very difficult to tell. I'd have to imagine that the weight between skippers would be far more detrimental to overall boat speed than that of your bottom surface.
From the Department of Scientific Studies and Political Speech Writing:
So far, some replies to: "Could you give us some scientific proof on this?" …..
“I have heard different things over the years” - - “I have also heard” - - “I would have to imagine” - - “I've always heard exactly the opposite” …..
[source, no doubt] A distant cousin of my aunt's nephew twice removed. Lovely singing voice, though - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -….. J. Sparrow
"…it would act more as a chemical mechanical planarization/ rather than just a mechanical planarization."
There are a lot of long words in there, … we're naught but humble pirates.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -….. Capt’n Barbossa
So, anyone got a link to test tank results from a university study done on an actual boat hull being moved through actual water?
.
.
So far, some replies to: "Could you give us some scientific proof on this?" …..
“I have heard different things over the years” - - “I have also heard” - - “I would have to imagine” - - “I've always heard exactly the opposite” …..
[source, no doubt] A distant cousin of my aunt's nephew twice removed. Lovely singing voice, though - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -….. J. Sparrow
"…it would act more as a chemical mechanical planarization/ rather than just a mechanical planarization."
There are a lot of long words in there, … we're naught but humble pirates.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -….. Capt’n Barbossa
So, anyone got a link to test tank results from a university study done on an actual boat hull being moved through actual water?
.
.
sailpuff223
New Member
I like your POTC references. I haven't heard of anything particular, but I'd have to imagine with the amount of money going into the bottoms of boats in America's Cup these days, someone has to have done it. But then again, they're not so concerned about longevity as some of us.
North Sail One Design Racer Eric Hood recommends Teflon wax as seen here http://www.northsailsod.com/articles/article10.html , and another interesting article here about our topic, http://www.mothboat.com/CMBA/Building/notwax.htm , but as far as actual tank tests, I have yet to see any, and most of them are done with wax models. If anyone finds an actual test, I'd be interested to see the data and results.
North Sail One Design Racer Eric Hood recommends Teflon wax as seen here http://www.northsailsod.com/articles/article10.html , and another interesting article here about our topic, http://www.mothboat.com/CMBA/Building/notwax.htm , but as far as actual tank tests, I have yet to see any, and most of them are done with wax models. If anyone finds an actual test, I'd be interested to see the data and results.
.
I’m glad you share in seeing the lighter side of this controversy. There are definitely passionate supporters in all camps, nearly all of whom I believe have valid arguments. What has yet to be documented repeatable is whether or not the application of theory results in a significantly measurable improvement of performance. Notice in your first link how North pays lip service to the fundamentals of good sense then segues into plugging one of their sister products drawing attention to aesthetics while avoiding any mention of the % improvement they might otherwise prove for it beyond the eye appeal. The second link is a repeat of the laminar flow discussion I posted earlier in this thread.
Right now, what works for me I could only swear works for me alone. My sailing cronies can replicate my methods and I theirs, but seldom with noticeably similar results. This leads me to believe that once you’ve entered the realm of the obvious by eliminating gross impediments like gouges and road crud further improvements serve more to sooth the mind. Once equipment is collectively brought to a particular standard, performance shifts focus to other, more tactical areas. In other words, racing stripes don’t enhance speed, only the perception of speed.
This one appears to continue as part of the sailing mystique. Bits of technology, like the golf ball dimple demonstration of laminar flow, mixed with a liberal application of optimism. Like the ball player on a hitting streak, it looks as though there’s as much quantifiable here as the magnitude of good luck possessed by a pair of charmed sweat socks.