How much difference do new sails make?

Krycek

Krycek

Member
Hye guys,

I've been sailing lasers for about three years now, but I have never broken down and bought a new sail. I'm wondering if it's really all its cracked up to me. The one i'm sailing now is old and blown out. I'm frostbiting this season with a very competitive fleet and I just seem to keep losing ground to windward and I don't know why. I have all the new rigging... I've been sailing for years, so my feathering and techniques are decent... I'm just wondering if my sail could be really hurting me.:confused:

thanks,


Jon
 
Of course it is. It is the engine and is right up there with Tactics and Boat handling. Get a new sail is you are losing to windward.:eek:
 
You may be competitive, but the old sail may keeping you from developing your skills further. To know the right way to trim, react to puffs, etc., you have to have a decent sail. If you had bought a brand new sail when you first started sailing a Laser, it probably would have been a waste. Now that you have developed some tactics and boat-handling skills, now is the time to invest in a new sail.
 
Our fleet has been getting over 50 boats per weekend and I would guess 1/2 of the top ten used sails that were multiple years old.
 
It dosn't do nearly as much diffrence as people think, it's mostly in the head.
If you have money to buy something new for the boat the thing that will give you the most is usualy a sail though.
 
To 663. What's the experience spread in your top 10 frostbiters and the rest of the fleet? Some guys like Paul Forester, Russell Couts and the like can sail a brick and still do well. Most regular guys will need the better gear to keep some advantage on the course. A new sail is going to help up wind for sure, but a great laser sailor can use an old sail and do circles around an "average" laser sailor using a new rag. Also, a sail may be a couple of years old, but it may still have fine shape depending on how much its been used.
 
To all who say new sails don't matter-

why do people at high levels of racing all always have new sails? because new sails are fast.

most people at the club level aren't in tune enough with their boats to notice the difference. thus, give them a new sail and it wouldn't matter much because their skills won't be able to take advantage of it. Once you reach a certain level of competitiveness (which it sounds like krycek is at), it really does matter. Here's one thing to watch for- if you're losing ground both upwind and downwind, the sail may be blown out. If you're only losing on one leg, then it's tecnique related.


One example- I sailed a regatta over the summer in which I went out with my practice sail and was mid-fleet. We came in for lunch, at which time I switched to a new sail- the rest of the day was top 5.
New sails make a difference.

Note- it doesn't matter how many "seasons" are on a sail, it matters how well it still holds its shape.
 
Whilst I cannot comment on how much difference decent sails make in a Laser, when racing larger boats I always used to make sure we had good sails (which was expensive). Apart from being easier to set/faster/etc. it ensured that when we did badly it was thus us (the people on the boat) that did badly and we could never start the "equipment let us down". It ensured that none of the crew could cast any blame elsewhere - and that really helped. It meant that when we did badly we examined our tactics, our performance, things that we (the crew) were doing and thus were able to sort things out and get better. (On bigger boats) I have seen people find it easier to blame equipment and thus avoid addressing what will really make them do better.

Ian
 
computeroman2 said:
---snip---
Here's one thing to watch for- if you're losing ground both upwind and downwind, the sail may be blown out. If you're only losing on one leg, then it's tecnique related.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with the above. The first place you notice a tired Laser sail is sailing upwind in over 8 knots. You won't be able to hold your lane and will sail lower then those with newer sails. This is not a technique issue, it's a tired sail issue.

What's happening is the cloth in the leech has started to suffer some perm. stretch and the draft of the sail has started to move back and the front cross-sectional shape of the sail is becoming straighter off the mast (which makes it harder to steer to) You can try and round up the front and pull the draft back forward by cranking on some cunningham, but that has the effect of further opening the leech of the sail, hurting your pointing even more.....

I don't think I have ever noticed a tired sail effecting offwind sailing, please explain what you mean.
 
If you're sailing with some sort of attached flow off the wind (by the lee or normally) it's been my experience that if my sail is really blown out, I either stay even or lose ground downwind, as opposed to a new sail, with which my weight advantage allows me to be very fast downwind.

This is something I've observed personally, so take it for what it's worth.
49208, you're right about the upwind >8kts.

Ditto what Deimos said- I forgot to mention the psychological part.
 
the better guys will go to extreme lengths to get that little bit of speed out of their boat. a freind of mine who is one of the top in the nation got his upper and lower section all the way from australia cause they fit so much tighter, he had to take it and put the base up against a fence post and push as hard as he could (mind you this guy is huge) and their was still a little gap which he eventually got out.
 
To all who say new sails don't matter-

why do people at high levels of racing all always have new sails? because new sails are fast.
Click to expand...

It does a small diffrence and it's really mostly about the psycological boost, it's hard to do your best when you think that you have equipment that is slightly worse than what the others have.
I know many top althlets in several sports that get all this new weird stuff that they know won't make the slightest diffrence, they just have to have it or they won't psycologicaly be able to do their very best.
 
Strange comment about the Australian sections. In Australia alot o fpeople are chasing the UK radial bottom sections, less prone to breakage.

Sails are your motor, sails matter.
 
i have 3 sails. one is a 1973 barely used, yet still ancient sail (used for the first time by myself today), one is a beat beat beat sail that was blown out 10 years ago it seems, and one is a brand new hyde.

my imput- as long as it hasnt stretched its ok. wrinkles could kill some speed, but its the stretch that does most of the damage.

for racing- who said psychological impact is bad? its always nice to have a sail without wrinkles above you. that added to the fact that most old sails are stretched, new sails are better. they just are very expensive.
 
They make a fairly big difference. When I started in a fleet with a brand new sail, during the first two weeks of racing I won most of the races and beat the guys who had been in it for ages. But after a few more weeks and as the sail got less crackly, i slipped back. With a brand new sail I reckon you get 5degrees or so more pointing ability and your speed (mainly upwind) is so much better. If u get a new sail i reccomend only washing the bottom third of it unless you capsize. because apparently if u wash a sail the resin degrades or something like that :confused: . I dont know how true that is but it sounds reasonable.
 
GBR141010 said:
If u get a new sail i reccomend only washing the bottom third of it unless you capsize. because apparently if u wash a sail the resin degrades or something like that :confused: . I dont know how true that is but it sounds reasonable.
Click to expand...

I asked someone who knows about Laser sails, and this is his reply:

""Washing a Laser sail damages the resin" is too broad of a statement to
really comment on.

Laying your sail out on the lawn, rinsing it down, using a mild detergent
and soft brush to remove some dirt, will not affect the resin.

Putting your Laser sail into a washing machine, even a commercial sail
washing machine, will quickly bring about the end of the sail's competitive
life. "

So I think that it's more the thrashing or mechanical action that causes a problem, just as letting the sail flog on the mast does.
 
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