How do I keep water out of the upper mast section?

T

Turtled

Member
Hi all.
I've recently bought a (2nd hand) Laser, and done a fair bit of work replacing tired rigging etc. I was pretty happy with it until after I took it out in a real old blow a couple of weeks ago. Inevitably I capsized several times, and spent a fair bit of time in the water; I found that the boat was starting to invert much faster towards the end of my session than the first couple of capsizes. When I came in and de-rigged, I could hear water sloshing about in the upper mast section, but it seemed trapped in there, so obviously wasn't free-draining... So, how do I keep the water out? I suppose I could try that 'staying upright' business, but where's the fun in that!!? :)

Any help / comments welcomed!
 
Well, if you can't find an obvious leak, the brute force solution is to remove and replace all the end caps and the sleeve, dolloping up everything with silicon caulk (especially the sleeve rivet!) when you put it back together.

While you're at it, you can "reverse" it making the current top the new bottom. The point of maximum stress and fatigue is where the sleeve is at it's rivet hole. By "reversing" you move that stress point to a fresh place on the section.

Fill the old hole with a rivet and caulk to keep it water tight.
 
I don't know why I didn't think of this yesterday when I saw your post, but just drill a small hole in the top plastic cap.

It might take a while to drain, but you could just set it up somewhere and leave it.

I thought there might be a vacuum effect, but it's coming in somewhere, so that means if you drill another hole, there will be two, negating that.

Make sure you smooth the edges of the hole, so it doesn't affect the top of your sail.

Sure, the water will come in easier if you tip, but hey, it's already coming in, so...

OR

5200 everything...
 
If you follow bjmoose's advice, be sure to rinse the spar's innards and dry it thoroughly before putting it all back together in a waterproof way.
 
Is the 'drill a hole' method class legal?

My gut feeling is to do it the hard way - strip it all down and put it back together with silicone sealant - as suggested - but I was hoping for a clever method that's not so time-consuming!

Just been for a blast this morning... howling again... max recorded apparent wind speed on my anenometer - 43.9mph! I'm assuming that was one of the gusts that knocked me over... (although I'd love to think I rode it out! :eek:) I spent a lot less time swimming today (not so warm!) and no noticable sloshing in the mast either - leaves me wondering whether I should bother at all....???
 
Removing the plugs and resealing shouldn't take but a few minutes, IF you have a sharp 3/16" drill bit to drill out the rivets and the replacement rivets and rivet gun. (just drill to remove the heads and use a nail or center punch to punch the rivet into the tube)Remove the bottom plug first and then if the top cap is stuck, just drop a 1-2lb weighted object (a chisel works well) from the bottom and tilt/lift the section up - the weighted object will knock the top cap out.

IMHO, for sealing up the fittings, silicone is the way to go - 5200 is too strong of an adhesive and will make future removal a pia and/or cause you to destroy the caps when removing them.


Drilling a drain hole in the top section will run you afoul of the class rules..
26. REPAIRS AND MAINTENANCE​


(c)
Preventative maintenance shall include the
replacement of fastenings with alternatives and
the reversing of spars provided that the fittings
are replaced in accordance with the Measurement
Diagrams (tolerances shall not be used to alter
the position of fittings) and that any holes in the
top section of the mast are permanently sealed
with a rivet or similar to maintain the buoyancy of
the mast.​


​
 
49208 said:
Removing the plugs and resealing shouldn't take but a few minutes, IF you have a sharp 3/16" drill bit to drill out the rivets and the replacement rivets and rivet gun. (just drill to remove the heads and use a nail or center punch to punch the rivet into the tube)Remove the bottom plug first and then if the top cap is stuck, just drop a 1-2lb weighted object (a chisel works well) from the bottom and tilt/lift the section up - the weighted object will knock the top cap out.

IMHO, for sealing up the fittings, silicone is the way to go - 5200 is too strong of an adhesive and will make future removal a pia and/or cause you to destroy the caps when removing them.


Drilling a drain hole in the top section will run you afoul of the class rules..
26. REPAIRS AND MAINTENANCE​


(c)
Preventative maintenance shall include the
replacement of fastenings with alternatives and
the reversing of spars provided that the fittings
are replaced in accordance with the Measurement
Diagrams (tolerances shall not be used to alter
the position of fittings) and that any holes in the
top section of the mast are permanently sealed
with a rivet or similar to maintain the buoyancy of
the mast.​


​
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The 5200 part was more of a joke haha.

I realise that drilling a hole is against the rules, but if he's not competing, it shouldn't make a difference.
 
Shatty007 said:
The 5200 part was more of a joke haha.

I realise that drilling a hole is against the rules, but if he's not competing, it shouldn't make a difference.
Click to expand...


Humor is always good, but many times people read a post without realizing it's a joke and go off and use that advice. It's a good practice to let other readers know you're kidding in that same post.

As far as the hole drilling, ironically, that's the part of your post I thought was the joke. ;)
 
49208 said:
Humor is always good, but many times people read a post without realizing it's a joke and go off and use that advice. It's a good practice to let other readers know you're kidding in that same post.

As far as the hole drilling, ironically, that's the part of your post I thought was the joke. ;)
Click to expand...

No way. If I wasn't racing, I'd definitely be drilling a hole.

Hole > Water in section.
 
If I didn't care about class legality, I'd consider drilling more holes in the end of the BOOM (which already isn't water tight) so that it would drain faster after a spill.

But having tried to right a turtled Hobie 16 after the leaky mast filled with water, (5 of us plus a power boat couldn't do it!) I'd keep the water out of that upper mast section. Its distance from the center-of-gravity gives it considerable mechanical advantage over the Nut-on-the-Daggerboard.
 
I've never had water in the boom.

*Doesn't care about "class legality" of drilling a small hole in a blue plastic fitting*

If it was at the end of the boom, you could drill holes and then just "permanently" plug them with a rivet. (Use hack saw/snips to remove nail end of rivet, file level with head of rivet, drill hole in end of boom, insert previously described "permanent" plug.)

Also, in the quoted rule, it only says "mast", not boom, correct? Unless mast encompasses boom, as well.
 
Not a good idea for multiple reasons:

  • Physics: air is lighter than foam
  • Not class legal
  • If foam does get wet, it takes time to dry it out (ask the Sunfish people)
 
Having holes or leaks in the top section is a safety issue, drilling holes in the top section may let water drain out more easily, but it will also let the water in quicker. Do the job properly as BJMoose indicated.
 
Shatty007 said:
I'd prefer not being told what to do, but I'll refrain from going down that route again.
Click to expand...

Well done, Shatty. I'm not sure what Stick finds to be the problem. I felt that you were trying to give a creative solution that the poster could take or leave. (I'd leave it and do it right. It's not hard to drill out the rivets and replace them.)
 
Rules are rules! Unless there is an imperative that will convince the Laser rule makers a change is needed, I guess being told what to do, is what it comes down to, intentions not withstanding.

Although I must say, the only way to get to that point requires some temerity and ingenuity on one's part. Have to learn by doing.
 
Merrily said:
Well done, Shatty. I'm not sure what Stick finds to be the problem. I felt that you were trying to give a creative solution that the poster could take or leave. (I'd leave it and do it right. It's not hard to drill out the rivets and replace them.)
Click to expand...

i know that the TLF is able to offer racers and non-racers advice and possible solutions. however, when a class measurer and others point out what is legal, what is accepted, and what will occur due to physics shouldn't that be the end? if you compromise your upper section with holes, or foam, or whatever then you jeapordize materials. when you think about it, a completely sealed upper section (silconed rivets and caps) makes for a "floating"
portion of your upper sail. this will aid you in righting the boat quicker and not carry heavy water around. for racers and non-racers - less weight is faster.
that's all i intended for my remark to Shatty. not trying to anger or disrespect anyone. sail on.
 
Speaking personally, my question has been answered. The way to do it is to execute a proper repair. No shortcuts with duck tape etc have been mentioned, so I assume that would be either useless, or illegal, or both. Many thanks.

For the record, "5200 it" means absolutely nothing to a Brit!
 
Turtled said:
Speaking personally, my question has been answered. The way to do it is to execute a proper repair. No shortcuts with duck tape etc have been mentioned, so I assume that would be either useless, or illegal, or both. Many thanks.

For the record, "5200 it" means absolutely nothing to a Brit!
Click to expand...

:) 5200 is a commonly available marine adhesive here. Some people swear by it, but I've had no luck with it all. It's probably the nut behind the applicator!
 
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