Gybing again

S

steerrolldash

New Member
I've searched for this but can't see anything immediately relevant.
Could some kind soul please break down gybing a Laser into its component parts for me? I know what I think it is, but I'd be really interested to see what others say.
 
steerrolldash said:
I've searched for this but can't see anything immediately relevant.
Could some kind soul please break down gybing a Laser into its component parts for me? I know what I think it is, but I'd be really interested to see what others say.
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1)- Turn your rudder. The more breeze there is the more aggressive your rudder movement should be.

2)- Give the boat a little roll to weather. The more breeze there is the less amount of roll you should apply.

3)- As the main starts to come across give a big yank on the main sheet and transition to the new weather side.

4)- When the jibe is complete ease the main, (if needed) and ster down to your new proper course, (if needed).
 
Rob B said:
1)- Turn your rudder. The more breeze there is the more aggressive your rudder movement should be.

2)- Give the boat a little roll to weather. The more breeze there is the less amount of roll you should apply.

3)- As the main starts to come across give a big yank on the main sheet and transition to the new weather side.

4)- When the jibe is complete ease the main, (if needed) and ster down to your new proper course, (if needed).
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At what point do you centre the rudder?
 
1. let some mainsheet out.

2. let the boat heel to windward. Never force the rudder over. Will be slow and tends to make you wet! when you fall in.

3. when you want the boom to go over, center the tiller and stop the turn.

if it is light winds I tend to skip step 1.
 
LASERNUT said:
1. let some mainsheet out.

2. let the boat heel to windward. Never force the rudder over. Will be slow and tends to make you wet! when you fall in.

3. when you want the boom to go over, center the tiller and stop the turn.

if it is light winds I tend to skip step 1.
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I don't necessarily agree with this, particularly in a breeze. If you are on a reach, you don't want to let the sail out any more. If you are on a run, you definitely want to sheet in before turning. This will backwind the sail and help push the boom across. Obviously you need to sheet out quickly after gybing.

Some of my scariest Laser sailing moments are attempting to gybe and having the sail fill by the lee. The boat will take off on screaming plane with my body in the wrong position. It's a death roll waiting to happen.
 
torrid said:
I don't necessarily agree with this, particularly in a breeze. If you are on a reach, you don't want to let the sail out any more. If you are on a run, you definitely want to sheet in before turning. This will backwind the sail and help push the boom across. Obviously you need to sheet out quickly after gybing.

Some of my scariest Laser sailing moments are attempting to gybe and having the sail fill by the lee. The boat will take off on screaming plane with my body in the wrong position. It's a death roll waiting to happen.
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Students of Mr Cockerill will tell you that, yes, letting the main out will cause to boat to want to roll to weather, and that is exactly what you want.
At that point steer aggressively down, the lifting efffect of the rudder balances the weather roll, flattening the boat, and screaming into the gybe you go.

His other point is that the centrifical force of the turn keeps the boom out, until you want the boom to come over. At that point you centre the rudder and over it comes.

Watch the boat whisperer - he describes it better than I do.

I think your way works too, but is maybe not as fast...?
 
marginal said:
Students of Mr Cockerill will tell you that, yes, letting the main out will cause to boat to want to roll to weather, and that is exactly what you want.
At that point steer aggressively down, the lifting efffect of the rudder balances the weather roll, flattening the boat, and screaming into the gybe you go.

His other point is that the centrifical force of the turn keeps the boom out, until you want the boom to come over. At that point you centre the rudder and over it comes.

Watch the boat whisperer - he describes it better than I do.

I think your way works too, but is maybe not as fast...?
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Probably so, but my main aim is to get the boom to cross when I expect and not capsize.

What the boat whisperer describes is for Laser Studs going for the gold medal. My technique is for Laser Scrubs holding on for dear life in too much breeze.
 
torrid said:
Probably so, but my main aim is to get the boom to cross when I expect and not capsize.

What the boat whisperer describes is for Laser Studs going for the gold medal. My technique is for Laser Scrubs holding on for dear life in too much breeze.
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You nailed it...
Understanding the theory is one thing. What us mortals actually do in practice is quite another.
 
I've heard some people say turn the boat until the top batten 'folds' over, then initiate the gybe with the mainsheet. What do you guys think of that?
 
Here's how I do it... depending on present form.

When I'm in form...

-Sail fast on a broad reach, pick a time when I'm going down a wave.
-Ease some mainsheet.
-As the boat rolls to windward it starts to turn all by itself - control the rate of turn with the rudder (but only if its turning too fast).
-Pull the boat over hard using the toestrap, watch the bottom of the leech to fold.
-As soon as the leech folds, centre the tiller and give the mainsheet a tug.
-Switch sides, flatten the boat, hike if I need to.
-deal with the mainsheet trim last of all.

(my technique for light winds is totally different, and not recommended - I still get it wrong regularly!)

Or if i'm rusty/asleep/dead at the wheel...

-Sail fast on a broad reach
-Think to myself "Ooh I hope I dont get this wrong/ These waves are big/ Its getting rough out here/insert your own expletives here"
-Pull the tiller until I'm dead downwind
-Pull in some mainsheet
-Turn by the lee using the rudder, feeling everything loading up, and the boat slowing down
-Tug on the mainsheet, hoping it's going to work
-Avoid the boom as it crashes across
-Start to hike.
-Stop trying to hike and climb onto the centreboard.

In all seriousness though, here are the key things:

-be confident. Once you've got the mechanics of the gybe sorted out, your thoughts as you approach the gybe are the No.1 factor in determining the outcome.

- steer with the boat, not the rudder. Remember, the faster you are going, the less wind pressure in your sail.

- keep an eye out for the tell-tale sign that the boom is about to come across - as long as you haven't got far too much kicker (Vang) on, the bottom few feet of the leech will start to fold inwards just before the boom comes across. This is when to tug/flick/pump the mainsheet.

- In a perfect world, at the exact moment the boom crosses the centreline of the boat, the boom, tiller, and helmsman should all be dead centre. I know lots of people will disagree, but it honestly works.

-Practise doesn't make perfect.
-Perfect practise makes perfect.
 
Yes I'm one that has began using the gybing faster technique and some of the rooster technique.

I've grown a bit so have some more weight for the radial and now am a bit more comfortable in the stronger stuff. It only took one day of sailing where the wind was around 20kts (I know this is still different to 30kt days) but I just decided to do what I've been hearing and just sail fast and gybe fast.

All it takes is a few times sailing going quick, I know it seems scary to gybe going flying down a wave but once you have done it it will become easier every time you do.
 
Yeah, I also bought the Rooster Sailing videos and using those gybing techniques did not work for me. I believe they are more relevant in extremely windy conditions.

Although, I did attend a sailing clinic and most of the attendees of the clinics in heavy wind were trying to force the gybe all loaded by the lee, which is kind of Cockrells point. When they could have made the gybe easier by heading up and gybing from a broad reach with less pressure.

Anyways, I think that most of the time that Cockrell is doing this gybe he his reaching then lets the main sheet out to heel the boat up naturally and then starts the gybe and bring the boat back to stability. If you do this by the lee and let the boom out you will most certainly flip. Also, on a side note I think the boat rolls better at higher wind strengths more so than at more milder conditions, which is why it is a high wind technique.

I think most peoples problem in high winds is there commitment to the gybe. My problem before this seminar was that I did not commit and get across the boat and hike to ensure that the bow remains light and doesn’t plow into a wave which would cause me to flip. Basically, what I am saying is in heavy wind get across and hike out on the opposite back corner of the boat to keep it from plowing.

Please reply if this doesn't make sense, I would love to hear someone else’s point of view
 
steerrolldash said:
At what point do you centre the rudder?
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The moment the boom passes over the centerline of your boat the rudder should be centered to avoid oversteering and miminize the rounding up to windward after the gybe.

In my mind.... getting the tiller back to center is the most important part of the whole shabang.
 
isn't getting the rudder back to the center, what makes the boom initiate its move across boat and gybe-when using the rooster gybe technique?

b/c he lets out the sail, pushes the tiller so the boat circles around the sail back in line to balance out the unbalanced relationship between the boat and sail, then he cross the boat himself and a straightens it to bring the boom across
 
After all of this discussion about the "Rooster Gybe" I dug out the Cd and watched it last night.

While most of his gybes were in heavy air there is one shot of him using the technique in medium air.

One thing I noticed was he NEVER lets the sail out beyond 90 degrees, (actually the boom stays in around 80 degrees). When he lets the sail out to initiate his turn he picks a time where he has a lot of speed on and he dumps no more than 2 feet of sheet to get his turn going.

Once the boat has just a small bit of weather heel to it it begins to turn and he gets it going faster with rudder movement. At the jybe point he jerks back in the same 2 feet of sheet he let out, (you see this from the mast head camera) and once the boom crosses center line he is on the new weather side with the tiller straight and he is on more of a reach angle again.

At the beginning of the turn his weight is in and aft in the cockpit. If he stayed on the old weather rail, (as he states) the boat would just roll over on top of him in a weather capsize.

On other points of the video he shows what happens to you if you let the sail out to far in a discussion that is capsize related. Paul Goodson notes in his book that when you are sailing in breeze the power of the breeze extends your leech beyond the 90 degree mark so you are always over trimmed on your main sheet to remain stable. Your boom looks like it is in too far, but your leech is extended to a "proper" and fast position.

For me, the main thing I concentrate on is jybing at the fastest speed I can get as the rig has less load on it which makes the jybe much easier and faster.
 
Watch, look and feel - agree its the dynamics of the rig in the prevailing conditions (gust, direction and wabes) plus the hull dynamics and steering you have to coordinate.

Think intensively (don't panic) try to view the whole process logically in slo mo and react intelligently (research and understand the dynamics)
 
I'll go one step further and this is what I teach to beginners.

As the boom passes through the centreline, reverse the rudder.

There is sufficient force behind the rig that the boat will still gybe but by reversing the rudder, you put the boat underneath the rig again, cushions the effect of the boom going out fully and prevents the boat from rounding up to the new windward side (and potentially capsizing). Basically, for a short time you are sailing either directly downwind or slightly by the lee, once you've gained full control of the boat you then adjust the sail and rudder to your new desired course.
 
The Laser Training Center folks have put out a new DVD... I've not seen the entire DVD but Old Geezer reviewed it on that other website he runs and had a lot of good things to say about it. Sounds like it is well worth purchasing, even at the approximately $50 it retails for.

Anyway, the Laser Training Center folks posted a nice excerpt of the DVD on YouTube which breaks down the light air jibe in each of its steps - on video.

.
 
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