How can I tell if my little deck plate is builder supplied? I ordered it from Intensity who claim it is class legal (http://www.intensitysails.com/holatupoforo.html) but it doesn't have the little Laser stamp that I've seen on everyone else's.
Cunningham/outhaul Upgrade
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Elessar
Member
Yes the one in your picture is not class legal, it is a replica.
The class legal ones have a Laser logo as show in the picture above.
And that's why I'm a little confused. According to their website the package that I purchased, which included this part, states that it is class legal. From what I'm hearing here that may not be the case.
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Merrily
Administrator
Looks like a misconception on the part of Jim Meyers, the owner of Intensity.
It seems that the manufacturers of all Laser components are starting to putting the Laser Trademark on all the components they supply to the builders in order to beat the suppliers of counterfeit components. If you haven't purchased the item from a reputable Authorised Laser Dealer / Builder and it's not marked with the Laser Trademark, it's possible it's counterfeit. In the end it will make measurement easier.
Gregg deBoisblanc
New Member
Greetings,
I've just purchased a 1977 laser that is in great shape. I have been toying w the idea of adding the out haul and cunningham upgrades that make it easier to adjust the while under way. However, I'm wondering if the desk of this boat is suitable.
Since these upgrades were not likely thought up until well after my boat was built, I'm wondering if the support for the block at the base of the mast as well as the jam to hold the lines is adequate.
Any one out there do this sort of an upgrade on an older boat like my own?
I just joined and love this forum!
Gregg
I've just purchased a 1977 laser that is in great shape. I have been toying w the idea of adding the out haul and cunningham upgrades that make it easier to adjust the while under way. However, I'm wondering if the desk of this boat is suitable.
Since these upgrades were not likely thought up until well after my boat was built, I'm wondering if the support for the block at the base of the mast as well as the jam to hold the lines is adequate.
Any one out there do this sort of an upgrade on an older boat like my own?
I just joined and love this forum!
Gregg
jeffers
Active Member
If you are worried the put a hatch by the daggerboard trunk (or by the mast step) you can then check the wood pads are still there and reapir/replace or through bolt as required. If you go by the mast step you can also check the condition of the step at the same time as this is a known weakness on the older boats.
Gregg deBoisblanc
New Member
Thanks Alan and Jeffers. I appreciate your comments. Both good suggestions.
I will have to look over the rules carefully to see if this sort of upgrade would disqualify me from any Laser competitions.
I hope that it would not. Better break out my magnifying glass!
Gregg
I will have to look over the rules carefully to see if this sort of upgrade would disqualify me from any Laser competitions.
I hope that it would not. Better break out my magnifying glass!
Gregg
jeffers
Active Member
Hi Gregg,
The repairs I detailed are permitted as this comes under the 'repair and maintenance' sections of the rules.
With regards to the actual controls. If you are going to race in ILCA sanctioned events then the deck plates must be builder supplied, think the rest is pretty much free with ragards to which blocks and cleats you want to use (Alan will know more on this if he cares to comment).
Most people buy a kit to upgrade both though unless you have spare clocks and cleats floating around.
Cheers,
Paul
The repairs I detailed are permitted as this comes under the 'repair and maintenance' sections of the rules.
With regards to the actual controls. If you are going to race in ILCA sanctioned events then the deck plates must be builder supplied, think the rest is pretty much free with ragards to which blocks and cleats you want to use (Alan will know more on this if he cares to comment).
Most people buy a kit to upgrade both though unless you have spare clocks and cleats floating around.
Cheers,
Paul
cskudder
Active Member
I have an older boat as well (1973) and have upgraded the cunningham, outhaul, and vang. I don't race, and I DID have some old hardware available, so I didn't buy class/race-legal parts. I'll offer a couple of my own observations/suggestions based on maintaining + sailing an older boat:
I most heartily encourage you to cut an inspection port in the deck and inspect where the bottom of the mast tube is attached to the bottom of the hull. Mine failed -- as very many have. To restate the obvious -- cuz in this case I think it's important enuf to restate- If you reinforce + strengthen it BEFORE it fails, it's a WHOLE VERY LOT easier job, and you'll have a better boat after it's done, than if you repair it after it fails. And the odds of it failing are pretty high, assuming it hasn't already failed or been reinforced. If ( ... or when??? ) it fails and the mast tips over, it really rips up the deck as it tips over. That is WAY harder to fix, and way harder to make it look OK, than reinforcing + preventing the failure before it happens. I sure wished I'd have known about this before mine let go + came down. Have a search around this forum - there are lots+lots of threads + pic's on here about people who have had to do this repair job.
Here's mine - http://sailingforums.com/threads/mast-step.7297/page-3#post-44853
I also most heartily encourage you to thru-bolt ALL the stressed points on the boat- including this deck plate. The 40-year-old wood into which everything is screwed ... well, nuf said. The rudder gudgeons, the hiking strap attach points fore + aft, the mainsheet block, ... all the high-load points on the boat.
In regard to impact of upgrades to the control lines on the sailability of the boat:
- for me the vang upgrade had the highest impact, due to being able to flatten the sail. If you are gonna upgrade the vang, also have a look at your boom. If it's original 1977, I'd strongly recommend putting the boom reinforcement sleeve into it. AND, removing the fittings at both ends of the vang (boom and mast), inspecting for corrosion, and re-riveting with a good corrosion inhibitor. This isn't easy- the stainless steel rivets are tough. But the new 15:1 vang is a powerful thing, and it'll easily break and/or tear out the original boom + attach points.
- the outhaul is next- again, the ability to flatten the belly out of the sail as the wind picks up is a huge help.
- the cunningham was least impact, but easiest to do. I only did a 2:1 and it is plenty enuf to do the job.
have fun!
I most heartily encourage you to cut an inspection port in the deck and inspect where the bottom of the mast tube is attached to the bottom of the hull. Mine failed -- as very many have. To restate the obvious -- cuz in this case I think it's important enuf to restate- If you reinforce + strengthen it BEFORE it fails, it's a WHOLE VERY LOT easier job, and you'll have a better boat after it's done, than if you repair it after it fails. And the odds of it failing are pretty high, assuming it hasn't already failed or been reinforced. If ( ... or when??? ) it fails and the mast tips over, it really rips up the deck as it tips over. That is WAY harder to fix, and way harder to make it look OK, than reinforcing + preventing the failure before it happens. I sure wished I'd have known about this before mine let go + came down. Have a search around this forum - there are lots+lots of threads + pic's on here about people who have had to do this repair job.
Here's mine - http://sailingforums.com/threads/mast-step.7297/page-3#post-44853
I also most heartily encourage you to thru-bolt ALL the stressed points on the boat- including this deck plate. The 40-year-old wood into which everything is screwed ... well, nuf said. The rudder gudgeons, the hiking strap attach points fore + aft, the mainsheet block, ... all the high-load points on the boat.
In regard to impact of upgrades to the control lines on the sailability of the boat:
- for me the vang upgrade had the highest impact, due to being able to flatten the sail. If you are gonna upgrade the vang, also have a look at your boom. If it's original 1977, I'd strongly recommend putting the boom reinforcement sleeve into it. AND, removing the fittings at both ends of the vang (boom and mast), inspecting for corrosion, and re-riveting with a good corrosion inhibitor. This isn't easy- the stainless steel rivets are tough. But the new 15:1 vang is a powerful thing, and it'll easily break and/or tear out the original boom + attach points.
- the outhaul is next- again, the ability to flatten the belly out of the sail as the wind picks up is a huge help.
- the cunningham was least impact, but easiest to do. I only did a 2:1 and it is plenty enuf to do the job.
have fun!
Gregg deBoisblanc
New Member
Paul,
Thanks for your tips and advice.
Skudder,
I appreciate your advice. After looking at the pictures of your deck, I'm sure you might have been close to physically sick when that happened. I will take your advice and likely put in an inspection port. I see that you placed yours due to the fasct that you had a major repair to do. I'll have to see what the crow bar test involves.
Thanks again for your help.
Gregg
Thanks for your tips and advice.
Skudder,
I appreciate your advice. After looking at the pictures of your deck, I'm sure you might have been close to physically sick when that happened. I will take your advice and likely put in an inspection port. I see that you placed yours due to the fasct that you had a major repair to do. I'll have to see what the crow bar test involves.
Thanks again for your help.
Gregg
cskudder
Active Member
Gregg, if I had it to do over, I would place my inspection port off to one side - not on the center line. My boat has a strip down the center of the deck that is thicker than the rest of the deck- it's about 4 inches wide as I remember. I would go far enough to one side, to have the inspection port not cut into that thicker strip. The deck is stronger if you don't cut that strip, and it's a little harder to seat the inspection port and secure it when it straddles that strip.
And yes you're absolutely right. With the first glance at that deck, I knew it was really bad. I considered just junking it and looking for another boat, and knew fixing it was going to be a lot of work, a lot of learning, a lot of time, and not cheap. Still, I'm glad I did. It's a great old boat, LOADS of fun. I was out on her again just yesterday.
Anyway best of luck with yours.
Chris
I'd want to see what markings are on the fittings before agreeing to the that.
If I purchased a sail that resembled a Laser sail from & made by Norths or Hyde, it wouldn't be class legal without the Laser button etc.
That's what I'm going with except there is no way to prove that Holt made this deck plate. It came in a package with a whole bunch of Holt parts but there is nothing on the actual plate showing Holt, Laser, or any other distinguishing factors (see original picture). It almost looks like they took a normal plate and stamped it again so that Laser wasn't on it.
I also emailed Jim about this asking for clarification and he responded by saying "They are considered builder supplied in the EU and thus are class legal."
I'm not super worried about it as I'm probably never going to be racing somewhere that I need to be 100% legal (club racing just says that we have to be "Laser-ish") but it still would be nice to figure out.
This is incorrect.
The class rules specifically state that the deck block fitting has to be Builder Supplied.
And the Builders that we all love are PSA and LP. Holt (and Intensity Sails) are not Builders as defined by ILCA.