Centerboard Stops

B

billmcinnis

Member
Reading the rules carefully, it’s not clear to me that strengthening the blue centerboard stops by through-bolting or by some other means is prohibited. If they do sometimes fall off then that design is a safety hazard. This is supported by the fact that the handle design has been changed by Vanguard. I wonder if someone got hurt, could they sue the Class for not allowing a known hazard to be corrected.

Rule 3.2.1 says that any type of retaining device can be used to position the board vertically as long as 3.2.4 isn’t violated. It doesn’t mention Rule 3.2.5. Are not the blue stops a retaining device to position the board vertically? If so, why can’t they be changed to strengthen them?

Rule 3.2.5 prohibits changes to the new board, however, if the stops are a retaining device then they are technically not part of the board.

If a stop falls off then it needs to be repaired. Rule 3.9 says the repair shouldn’t affect the essential shape or characteristics, which strengthening wouldn’t. Rule 3.2.5 also allows repairs as long as the board dimensions meet the diagram and Class gauges. Strengthening wouldn’t violate this requirement. Also, the stops could be considered a fitting in which case they only need to be replaced in the same position.
 
While it seems absurd to not allow it, in my opinion it is technically against the rules because of the first rule "No addition or alteration may be made to the Sunfish as supplied by the Builder except as is specifically authorized by these rules". Because this alteration is not specifically mentioned it should not be allowed. With that said, I could name a dozen things that people have been doing in the class for years that are also not legal by this logic.

I would say the only person that can answer this question is the class measurer because it is an interpretation of rules.
 
By the way Bill... as I mentioned in the "Things you would like to see improved upon by the Sunfish boatbuilder for 2008" forum, I think this is a great idea.
 
My theory is that since the stops are a "daggerboard retaining device" used to "vertically position the daggerboard" and 3.2.1 says "any type can be used" then 3.2.1 seems to authorize the use of a modified standard type.

I'd like to hear from the measurer on this. If this is a loophole I think it should be welcomed.
 
Per figure 4 (daggerboard c), the bottom of the board has to be 44" max. below the deck line. If someone tried to make it deeper it would easily be recognized.
 
THIS IS THE MEASURER SPEAKING.
rule 3.2.5 says no modifications can be made to the daggerboard in figure 5. if the stopper fails, buy a new one and give vanguard holy heck.

todd edwards
 
What does rule 3.2.1 mean? The stopper is a retaining device, not the centerboard, and 3.2.1 doesn't mention rule 3.2.5. Also, 3.2.5 says that repair is allowed.

I'm not worrying about anything personally. I'm not going to cut my finger off like someone else did and I'm not worrying about buying a new stopper. OTHERS, not me, indicated a desire to strengthen the stopper, since it may be a safety hazard. I was merely pointing out that the rule, properly interpreted, may allow it. If you don't allow it I don't care. Incidentally, Vanguard doesn't doesn't make the Sunfish class rules and they don't say you can't strengthen it. You (speaking for the Class) are, so why should I give them holy heck.

I find it amusing that it's OK to put sort of a bridge-deck on your boat to mount your cleats, but, you can't put a bolt through a weak component to strengthen it.

I don't want to get involved in any controversy, so I'll say no more on the subject.
 
One problem with "upgrading" the dangerboard stops is what mateial do you use? Folks thinking a nice stainless stell bolt and nut better also keep plenty of marineTex handy to repair all the nicks/dents/ cracks around the dagger board from entusiastic lowering of the dagger board.
I know I broke off the wooden top stops om several older wooden boards and even did one in renforced with inset angle braces reinforcing the stops to the board...LOL
Caps of rubber, ploypropyline, nitril, urathane, etc sooner or later will end up failing/wearing.
So the engineers had to come up with a way to satifiy the legal department (I have no idea if there are any claims against the company for damaged fingers).
If anyone can figure a true fix send it to the engineers doing the design work and that's about the only change of getting the inset hole back.
Me I'd lobby for what I had on my old wooden boardsd, which was a drawer handle screwed to the top of the dagger board. Worked just fine and it also f=gave a place to run the Jesus strap and bungey for holding up the dagger board when running.
 
billmcinnis said:
Rule 3.2.1 says that any type of retaining device can be used to position the board vertically as long as 3.2.4 isn’t violated. It doesn’t mention Rule 3.2.5. Are not the blue stops a retaining device to position the board vertically? If so, why can’t they be changed to strengthen them? ...
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the intent of this rule is to allow for shock cords, or whatever, to hold the board when it's up. If that's what it's supposed to mean, the rule probably needs to be adjusted, because I think Bill is correct that the way it reads (as long as you don't drill new holes in the board), you could remove the stop and put in a through-bolt system. The class may need to defiine whether the stops are part of the board, or a vertical retaining device.
 
I meant to bow out of the discussion, but, there seems to be some misunderstanding about the type of change that might reasonably be made to the daggerboard stops.

The Lasers have a similar stop on their board. Here is an excerpt from the Laser rules.

"The components of the "Builder Supplied" centreboard stopper may be secured together by glue, screws, bolts, nuts and washers, provided the original shape and dimensions are not reduced."
 
billmcinnis said:
I meant to bow out of the discussion, but, there seems to be some misunderstanding about the type of change that might reasonably be made to the daggerboard stops.

The Lasers have a similar stop on their board. Here is an excerpt from the Laser rules.

"The components of the "Builder Supplied" centreboard stopper may be secured together by glue, screws, bolts, nuts and washers, provided the original shape and dimensions are not reduced."
Click to expand...

Note that this change in the Laser Class rules was recently voted on and approved. The Sunfish class could do the same. There really shouldn't be much of an argument why this would be a good change.

 
As I see it most of the problems with these fittings stem from the three piece construction. The outer rings fatigue (for obvious reasons) and overtime they can loosen and eventually crack or simply “pop” off. Once the ring is gone the rest of the fitting follows in short order.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to allow us to drill a small diameter hole through the middle of the existing stopper and thru bolt it using stainless fender washers on both sides. The fender washers will clamp the fitting together making it much, much stronger and help prevent it from completely failing.

I’m not sure I can see the logic in the class NOT allowing this kind of safety upgrade. Personally, I’m going to Thru-bolt every one of my boards because I don’t want to loose any fingers.
 
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