Advice on Capri

Discussion in 'Capri/Catalina 14 Talk' started by lax71vcu, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    I am getting ready to take possession of my first sailboat! I have "borrowed" sunfish, small hobie cats, a vangaurd 15 and small sailboats. This will be my first boat with a jib and centerboard that is not completely removable.

    It was my grandfathers boat bought new. I believe it is a mod 1. I will double check on that though and has only been in the water maybe 10 times. For the rest of its life it sat on trailer in shaded area/ covered until this weekend when I will go to get it. Any advice on things that will make getting this boat water ready easier for somebody new to the class? I am pretty sure the standing rigging was removed and kept indoors. If not should I just replace all stays and forestay or is there a way to know they need to be changed out? I would also assume that the sheets and lines all need replacing unless they were indoors as well. Any other advice?

    Thanks!
     
  2. gregwcoats

    gregwcoats Member

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    New standing and running rigging is cheap insurance, you will feel more confident while sailing having both those things. Also, consider a Hobie Baby Bob for the mast head and a boarding ladder for the stern. If the boat does not have roller furling for the head sail, thank about adding it, it makes solo sailing much easier. Repack the wheel bearings before towing any distance. Until you get used to the boat, try sailing with the main only, once you feel confident with that, add the headsail. I never sail with winds over 10 knots, but then again I am 67 years old and want to sail, not swim.
     
  3. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    Thank you Greg for your reply. I have already began looking into the baby bob for the mast. I weigh in at a healthy 240lbs and am a strong swimmer. I think I will be able to right the boat but do want that "extra insurance" so to speak.

    I have also found standing rigging at West marine that one makes on their own. How does this compare with the Catalina Direct version? I know it is cheaper but I am looking specifically at quality. Also, I have found many online sights offering 1x19 3/32" 316 stainless steel wire online fore 0.24 cents per foot vs. .50 or more at "sailing" stores. Any confidence in this stuff? Any difference?

    Finally at west marine I can get 1/8" 316 or 3/32" 304. I would prefer the 316 but any reason to shy away from the thicker wire?
    I really want to go with the cheaper stuff I have found but want to be sure it is the right stuff. Thanks!
     
  4. gregwcoats

    gregwcoats Member

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    I bought my standing rigging at www.catalinadirect.com and the running rigging at West Marine. The purpose of the Baby Bob is to keep the boat from turtling. In many cases the 14.2 goes upside down when it is capsized, and then the masthead gets stuck in the mud/sand/or whatever is on the bottom. The Baby Bob keeps this from happening.

    The standing rigging is the one place you don't want to go cheap, if a shroud fails the mast comes down and replacing a mast or mast step is a lot of money.
     
  5. boat

    boat Member

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    Congrats! I think you will enjoy the C14.

    The original wire size shrouds and fore-stay are all you should need. This rigging doesn't (to the best of my knowledge/experience) fail anywhere other than at the crimp when it becomes corroded or you have a major collision. Larger wire size only adds weight. I have always tried to keep the weight aloft at a minimum. For example: adding five pounds of rigging, antennas, radar, wind direction and speed equipment, etc. to the top of a 50’ mast results in 250 pounds force pushing the boat over when healing. Yep, I do know that I am on the C14 page; I am only making the point that when you consider the weight and arm of anything aloft you must think about any possible effect it will have on the amount of wing you can use without excessive healing. I have not gone through the numbers but the size of wire probably has minimal if any effect on the C14's ability to stay on its feet in a fresh wind, not sure about putting a float on top. With the float you must consider the effect of both weight and windage.


    I have always made my own standing rigging, shrouds, lifelines, halyards, etc. The whole process is pretty simple and foolproof if one pays attention. I have simple tools that provide the specified compression and I have never had a crimp fail. The tool I use for the smaller wire (1/16” – 1/8”) is pictured below. The tools for the larger crimps are substantially heavier; some roller type and others simple long handled crimpers. The key is to make sure the crimp is deep enough but not too deep. No more than I have had to use my tools I find there is no ware on the dies so I trust the crimps 100% . These are the same dies that everyone uses; some of the high production units are hydraulic; the hand operated ones work just as well.


    Good luck with your new venture!
     

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  6. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    thanks boat!
    This is very good information. I am initially thinking of adding foam to the inside of the mast to increase floatation and down the road I will look at the baby bob addition. Looks like most guys are customizing brackets.
    This boat has not been in or stored near the water for more than 8 years so I am just not sure of the standing rigging and everything I have read about the OEM vinyl cover wires is they let go unexpectedly and bad things ensue. I am trying to avoid this by changing the rigging out and am wanting to do it on a budget if at all possible. I have found reasonable price 316 SS 1x19 wire that is 3/32" so I am good to go there I just don't know if I trust my self with the fittings. I was thinking of thimbles and crimps on both sides then one of the bolt tightened "shackles" to act as a safety.

    There is something nice to be said about ordering them pre-done and simply pin them in and go....
     
  7. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    Boat, I looked at the "swage-it" tool. Very interesting. This would allow me to run the cable and thimbles through the mast tang and save money of the "aircraft" forks that are used to attach new shrouds to the tang. I have seen other swage tools often advertised as being used for garage doors. Are these the same thing or are they inferior?
     
  8. boat

    boat Member

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    I bought my swag tool many years ago but I believe West Marine still carries a similar if not the same tool for around $25 to $30 dollars. If you plan to get one, I suggest you consider the one they sell. I have had great luck with mine over the years. I can't comment on the garage swag tool but it is "possibly" OK.

    It is hard to determine the accuracy of any swag tool without the proper go / no-go gauges. A swag joint must be compressed to a specific diameter yet not over compressed. The tool I got from West Marine passed the go / no-go test with no problem. I suspect that any reputable manufacture would machine their tool to the correct specifications but then you never know. I would think there would be some liability issues related to out of spec tools. If the tool was sized properly when built it should last for hundreds of crimps.

    When crimping 3/16 wire rope, or any size for that mater, I use zinc plated copper swag sleeves for both boat and airplane rigging. Not sure that aluminum sleeves wouldn't work but I believe the copper is stronger.

    I prefer the aircraft forks on all standing rigging but the original seems to have been the thimble which is much cheaper and works just fine.

    If in question about the quality of the swag made by any tool you purchase you can get a good idea of the strength/quality of the swag by comparing the the measurements of the original swag on your old rigging with the swag made by the new tool. If they are within a few thousands of an inch you should be totally safe. If there is significant differences in the measurements return the tool and try another manufactures product.

    Good luck...
     
  9. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    Thanks Boat,
    Well guys I got the boat. The standing rigging seems to have been stored indoors. There is no rust or "fish hooks" coming off of the metal wire at all. I looked at the small amounts of exposed wire and there is no discoloration. Is this the best way to determine if the rigging is usable? Or does it have an expected age at which it is "dead". Much of the running rigging is hit or miss. The jib sheet seems ok still has good hand. The main sheet looks ok too. The halyards look a bit "dry" not sure if this is normal or is a sign of needing replacement. Any feedback is much appreciated. Thanks!
     
  10. gregwcoats

    gregwcoats Member

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    As I stated before, new standing and running rigging is cheap insurance. It also makes the boat look nicer. Also check the mast step.
     
  11. gregwcoats

    gregwcoats Member

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    As I understand it, the mast step should be firmly attached to the cabin top, but not through bolted. If the mast should come down, for whatever reason, you want the mast step to go with it, you do not want the cabin top to be damaged, which it would be if the mast step were to be through bolted.
     
  12. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    Greg,
    My mast step IS through bolted. What is the best way to attach the mast step?
    Stainless wood screws into a block of scrap? Or just take the bits off the through bolts?
     
  13. gregwcoats

    gregwcoats Member

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    We need others to give their feedback on thru bolting the mast step. I will go look at my mast step asap and get back to you.
     
  14. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    That should have said nuts off of the through bolts... Sorry
     
  15. gregwcoats

    gregwcoats Member

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    The mast step needs to be held in place with something, I would not remove the nuts on the underside of the cabin. I will attempt to go look at mine tomorrow or soon as I can anyway.
     
  16. boat

    boat Member

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    I am working on a totally different approach to the way the bottom of the mast is anchored to the fiberglass.:rolleyes: The design will totally eliminate any damage to the mount should a shroud fail. I hope to have the design tested and ready to share by the end of the summer. For now it appears that screwing the mast step (?) to the deck is a far better idea than through bolts. While the base of the mast experiences some side and fore to aft pressure the major pressure is downward. The only time the strength of the screws is tested is when the mast is stepped. If the screws don't rip out when stepping the mast then you should have nothing to worry about.:)
     
  17. lax71vcu

    lax71vcu New Member

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    I am interested to see this... I can't imagine an alternative beyond stainless screws.... There has to be another way though something that will allow a bit more flexibility....
     
  18. Douglas Ray

    Douglas Ray learning the ropes

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    I notice that a previous owner of my boat cut a slits in the mast set above holes though which the bolt holds the mast. The slits extend from the top of the step about half way to the bolt holes. I assume this is to allow it to break away if the mast carries away. Is that a common practice?
     
  19. boat

    boat Member

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    If you have through bolts you may want to consider using nylon nuts rather than stainless steel on the through bolts. I would even consider using only one nut on a forward bolt and one on an aft bolt. I would place one nut on the front port bolt and one on the aft starboard bolt. As I mentioned above the only pressure on the mast base is side to side and front to rear except when stepping the mast which places upward pressure on the base mount. The stainless steel bolts will prevent any lateral motion even with no nuts on them and the nylon nuts should be plenty strong enough to hold the bracket while the mast is being stepped. If the mast were to fall, "HOPEFULLY" the nylon nuts would strip before the fiberglass is ripped out. While I have experienced a shroud failure on a larger boat during pretty severe weather, I have never had one fail on a Capri so I can only speak on a theoretical basis. However, from what I have seen on this site I would conclude that through bolts with stainless steel nuts is bad news if you have a shroud failure. Worse yet is having a backing plate on the bottom side which is guaranteed to cause massive damage.

    Good luck
     
  20. gregwcoats

    gregwcoats Member

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    I finally got time to go look at my boat, the mast step is through bolted. The nuts on the underside are quite small, whether or not they would pull out without damaging the cabin top in a demasting is questionable!
     

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