which laser to get?

T

tmoney727t

New Member
which laser to get

Hi,
I have been a pretty competitive 420 skipper around new england sailing 3 seasons a year and consistently place in at least the top quarter of my fleet (pretty good for the area's 420 competitiveness). I've been thinking about getting a laser but my compact build is making me question what type to get. I am 5'8 155lbs and am trying to decide whether to go for a fully or a radial. From my experience in 420 sailing, I think i'd rather be light for the boat than heavy (god damn 100lb girls buring my ass on lightwind days). I can hike, but will I be at a disadvantage to a 180lb full rig sailor in 12 knots of breeze?
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Hi,
I have been a pretty competitive 420 skipper around new england sailing 3 seasons a year and consistently place in at least the top quarter of my fleet (pretty good for the area's 420 competitiveness). I've been thinking about getting a laser but my compact build is making me question what type to get. I am 5'8 155lbs and am trying to decide whether to go for a fully or a radial. From my experience in 420 sailing, I think i'd rather be light for the boat than heavy (god damn 100lb girls buring my ass on lightwind days). I can hike, but will I be at a disadvantage to a 180lb full rig sailor in 12 knots of breeze?​
 
Go both. I'm 165 and sail both depending on the event. You may get your ass kicked sometimes in the full rig but its a lot better competition some of the time and you can try to hike w/ the best of them. It's better to keep the options open.
 
if you can afford it go both. if not you are light and short for the full rig and just right for the radial.
 
there is only one real wind range where a light sailor is at a dissadvantage. this is the middle wind range of about 10-18 or so. when its light breeze you will be quick and when its just blowing out alot of it is just technique and knowing what to do.
 
If I buy a radial How much more $$$ is a sail and mast and w/e else I need in order to upgrade a radial rig to a full rig.
 
APS lists $474 for a radial sail, and $199 for the radial lower mast. Ironically, if you buy them together it costs $695. There must be something else that costs the extra $22 (sail numbers?).

I'm 5'6" and 145 lbs, and am definitely fall in the "in between" category. At 155 lbs. you would definitely be better off with a full rig except for extremely windy conditions. Even in higher winds, proper conditioning and technique can take you a long way.

If you sail 420s, I'm guessing you're a junior sailor? You're probably only going to get bigger. Get both rigs if you can, but I would favor a full-size for your situation.
 
Re: which laser to get

In a laser, it only pays to be light when it's light. When it gets heavy, basic physics says that the more righting power you have, the more drive you have. Therefore, as soon as you're overpowered the heavier guys will walk away from you. You can kill them on the downwind, but it's harder to stay up.

155 lbs is just over the radial average, but definitely too light for a standard rig. I'd try and lose 5 lbs. and go with a radial.
 
Im 17 so Im not gonna get much bigger, probably smaller weight wise once high school racing starts up again this spring. I feel like when im sailing 420's like I am a wrestler fasting in order to stay in my weight class, this is not enjoyable to me, i'd like to be able to work out and gain muscle mass without worrying about those skinny girls passing me on a light wind day, this is why I'm looking at lasers.
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tmoney727t said:
Im 17 so Im not gonna get much bigger, probably smaller weight wise once high school racing starts up again this spring. I feel like when im sailing 420's like I am a wrestler fasting in order to stay in my weight class, this is not enjoyable to me, i'd like to be able to work out and gain muscle mass without worrying about those skinny girls passing me on a light wind day, this is why I'm looking at lasers.
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Click to expand...

Trust me on this one, you're only going to get bigger. It may be muscle, it may be beer in college, but there is no way you will maintain your age 17 weight.
 
well, over the past 2 years I have grown about 2 inches and have lost about 10 lbs, plus college sailing will force me to eat like an aneorexic wrestler, I'm not too sure if im gonna be gaining much weight anytime soon. Also I dont really like the taste of beer, jack goes down smooth for me though.
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I'm 152Lbs and 5'9" and am going for a standard sail. My first challenge will be to ensure I can control,the boat reliably in a wide range of conditions before starting to sail in close quarters with other boats (just because when a gust hits I need to be as confidant as possible that I can stop the boat luffing madly into a nearby boat, capsizing onto somebody, etc. I'm sort of thinking that if a Standard rig is too much then if I am OK (control wise) in a standard then changing to a radial will make control issues easier).

For me it was a difficult choice as my impression (from looking at open meeting results/rankings/event reports) is that radial rigs are quite a lot more popular in France.

Ian
 
If the last leg in your racing format is upwind and the breeze is usually over 12-15 kts go Radial otherwise go standard.

Lightweights in the standard can (and do) pass 20 or more heavyweights in a breeze over 15kts downwind but will loose as many or more places upwind - even if they don't make tactical mistakes. So if the finnish is upwind be resigned to lower order places even if you hit the lead at each leward mark.

Radial is a disadvantage in light airs for lake sailing because the rig is shorter - sometimes only the top 1/3 is working in moving air in light conditions. If there is an actual 'breeze' (little or no difference in strength to mast height) radial can suit lesser body weights/heights. In a real 'breeze' and chop, I'm not sure -maybe the radial then is comparable to the standard for the light/short vs heavier/tall sailors.

If you are in-between in weight and height the Radial might be more comfortable upwind (but as soon as there is chop you need to sail lower to keep up to VMG and this favours heavier and fitter sailors as soon as the windstrength approaches 12kts). With the Radial you will also may loose the scintalating (almost out of control) downwind performance lightweights experience with the standard rig.

Best to try both at a club in a range of conditions and probably decide based on who you want to race against and where/what typical conditions. If you can handle it, and don't mind falling from first to 15th OR WORSE upwind in over 12kts (because you know you can fly past the heavyweights downwind) you might consider the standard - but if you get weeks of strong wind through the season be prepared to struggle competitively in terms of race places.

The radial is sometimes a deceptive choice for 'in-beteen' height/weight racers because in chop and 12-15 kts heavyweights can reach to windward and still make remarkable VMG while the lightweights struggle to follow, and the boat just staggers if you try to sail higher (as you may do in a standard). Lightweights still have an advantage downwind - but this advantage does not seem to be to the same extent as with the standard-where they just 'blast' the competition with explosive speed (provided they can still control the boat).

If you are 'stuck-in-the middle' weight/height/fitness level it is a bit of a hare vs tortoise decision situation (Radial will ensure more control but require more precision to do well) while the standard will provide superior light wind performance and a more exciting and on the edge ride in a breeze, with results more dependent on 'skiff-style' boat handling.

Choice is not as straight-forward as many claim. Depends not only on where you sail but also your racing aspirations and what you enjoy most in sailing.

Since the adoption of the Radial to Olympic status resale value of radial sails (and lower mast sections) have increased significantly. If you try the Radial and don't like it you should have little difficulty in selling it and converting to the satndard.
 
I'm 5'9" and a shaky 150-155 depending on breakfast, and I have a full rig. It's doable, I just have to hike like I mean it and sometimes I can't trim it the way I want, life happens.

I've never been out and wished I had gone with the radial.
 
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