What type of sails do you have ?

[Deimos]

Not starting another "why are sails so c**p/overpriced/shortlived/etc. ? thread but I was wondering what sails people actually own/use.

The options I thought of were:
1. Only class legal sails (i.e. not gone down the 3rd party route at all)
2. Both 3rd party and class legal, class legal is good enough for regattas (e.g. use 3rd party for club racing saving the class legal sail(s) for more important races)
3. Both 3rd party and class legal, but class legal sail(s) are well worn (e.g. when my class legal sails got too bad I opted for a 3rd party replacement and the class legal sail is only really an emergency spare).
4. Only 3rd party.
5. As with any poll there are bound to be other options that I have overlooked.

I was not trying to re-start the endless debate ('cos I think there are a couple of threads active at the moment relating to this anyway). More just wondering what people actually use.

Ian

 

[cooper6631]

Just picked up a Laser and plan on doing some masters events. As the boat was used as a radial it had no sails when I got it. The price of sails being what they are I purchased a Intensity for practice and a class sail for regattas.

 

[203]

I voted none of the above, but it may be out of ignorance. I am a recreational sailor, have never sailed in a Laser event of any kind. My boat is 1980 and has the original sail. It has no 'button' but has been well kept and actually not abused.. it makes a great recreational sail.

Am I really class legal, and answered the question incorrectly ?

 

[AlanD]

Am I really class legal, and answered the question incorrectly ?

With respect to the sail for this aspect, yes you're class legal but you may run into difficulty if you can't convince the measurer that the sail predates the button and 3.8 oz sails etc.

 

[jeffers]

Interesting poll. Looks like a 50/50 split pretty much at the moment.

In fairness to the builder (in the UK) they are trying to do something about the cost of a new sail through bulk ordering etc.. My issue with is that if they are able to offer a large discount for the purchase of 5 or more why can't they make the base price lower in the first place.

Just my 2p

 

[pez]

With respect to the sail for this aspect, yes you're class legal but you may run into difficulty if you can't convince the measurer that the sail predates the button and 3.8 oz sails etc.

My oldest class legal sail is one of the original elvstroms, it's almost as soft as toilet paper. I would almost want to use it in an event just to give the measurer some fits (or more likely myself). I keep it only for it's historic value.

I have two other class legal sails, one with a jolly roger on the side... it came with the boat that had the flame job, flames make everything faster.

 

[LooserLu]

My oldest class legal sail is one of the original elvstroms, it's almost as soft as toilet paper. I would almost want to use it in an event just to give the measurer some fits (or more likely myself). I keep it only for it's historic value.

Exact the same at me.
I have 2 of Elvstroem/Toronto: 1 witout window and 1 already with window. I never would give them away. Compared to modern 3.8 oz Hyde's, the Elvstroem sails are like to compare "Citroen 2CV" to "Aston Martin DB7", correct, "pez".
The 3.2 oz Haarstick sails of the 70ties/80ties, I once owned, habe been sold with my recreational Laser some years ago. I remember the last version of the Haarstick sails ("compucut" is written in the sail sticker) have been nice/fast for low winds, but not have been much more durable than the old Elvtroem sails...

Beside of this historical aspects:
1 Standard Hyde 3.8 oz folded, aged, for practice. 1 Standard Hyde 3.8 oz rolled for racing, 2 Standard Hyde 3.8 oz, never used, fromer folded (now rolled for storing).
1 Radial North 3.8 oz rolled for racing
Should I open a Laserstore ...

 

[Deimos]

One thing that has surprised me from the vote is the number of people using only Class legal sails. From the discussions about 3d party sails I had assumed far more people were using practice sails most of the time - but seems a lot are sticking with Class legal (at least a lot more than I expected).

There is no way of answering this but I wonder how much of this is the nature of the sailing people visiting this site do (more regattas where Class legal gear is required).

Maybe the results are encouraging in that 3rd party sails have not yet completely taken over and the Class/Builders still have a chance to return us to strict one design racing.

Another aspect (and the one I was mainly thinking about when starting the poll) was the often people say the justification for allowing 3rd party sails is that with the price of legal sails, many could just not afford to sail in the class (or to be competitive, etc.). However, it seems very few are 3rd party only and quite a few of those that use 3rd party to preserve their more expensive sail (i.e. they have managed to afford a good/reasonable Class legal sail AND a good 3rd party sail).

Ian

 

[Aussie]

Y'know what I am seeing here in Australia is a whole lot of people who just want to enjoy sailing not the sanctioned racing or the like but to go down to the water and just get out there. I saw i-Sails has started distribution there so I got one and now I have a new sail that crackles instead of my old one that I could have used for a babies nappy (soft and beautifully absorbant). Im happy, my wallet is happy and so is my new born daughter!!!

 

[pez]

Y'know what I am seeing here in Australia is a whole lot of people who just want to enjoy sailing not the sanctioned racing or the like but to go down to the water and just get out there. I saw i-Sails has started distribution there so I got one and now I have a new sail that crackles instead of my old one that I could have used for a babies nappy (soft and beautifully absorbant). Im happy, my wallet is happy and so is my new born daughter!!!

I completely agree... I have no philosophical problems with any brand of laser knock off sails. Intensity (for example) has never implied that their sails are class legal, in fact I think that they go to a more than reasonable length to state the opposite; they are a non-legal alternative for those that wish to practice or just sail for less cost.

I have all class legal sails because that's what I wanted at the time. I will likely buy Intensity sails next time I need to. I'm not a skilled enough sailor to notice the difference in a brand new sail and an almost brand new sail.

 

[203]

One thing that has surprised me from the vote is the number of people using only Class legal sails. From the discussions about 3d party sails I had assumed far more people were using practice sails most of the time - but seems a lot are sticking with Class legal (at least a lot more than I expected).

The poll might be skewed slightly by the fact that a newer Laser purchase and for that matter even an older Laser purchase might be with class legal sails. Mine is an example of that. It's an '80 model boat, but has class legal sails on it. Not competitive sails, but class legal. I've seen lots of Lasers for sale, but I don't remember one with only 3rd party sail equipment.

When I go out to buy new sails, as a recreational sailor, you can bet it will be the third party sails I go after. On my budget I cannot justify the added expense of a class legal sail for an occasional regatta that requires them. But I would still be in the "50/50" category because I never throw anything away, and thus would have both class legal and 3rd party sails, making me appear to be a racer with 3rd party practice sails. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Kratos]

In my opinion (and having never used a third party sail - TPS from now on), I think if you're training seriously and racing competitively, you should only use Class legal sails. You should practise with the same type of sail you'll be racing with.

Like I said, though, I've never used a TPS, so I can't really comment on any differences.

 

[Deimos]

In my opinion (and having never used a third party sail - TPS from now on), I think if you're training seriously and racing competitively, you should only use Class legal sails. You should practise with the same type of sail you'll be racing with.

I likewise have no experience of 3rd party sails but I would agree with what you say. From what people say the 3rd party sails are heavier material and so I would expect have different stretch characteristics.

However, maybe the name "training sail" is a bit of a marketing term when most people actually use them for racing as they are cheaper than Class legal sails (i.e. club racing events). "Training Sail" might sound flashy and people might like to consider their club racing as "training" and people might like to consider their "training" being about tactics, etc. but from what people have said here I suspect it is about money rather than training (why spend more when you don't have to ?).

Ian

 

[Kratos]

People only buy those sails because they're cheaper. Period.

 

[Eric_R]

It does surprise me that you don't see much in terms of the used sail market. For people who don't race, selling a used sail should be fine and if they want to race they could still use it rather than being SOL with a TPS. I have some I could sell to people if they want them.